Thoughts on economics and liberty

The ancestors of the BJP senior BIGOT, Subramanian Swamy, must have been MONKEYS

A bigger DONKEY perhaps doesn’t exist in India today. Turns out this joker is a SENIOR BJP leader. It is shocking that this is the kind of people who are not only getting into BJP but rising in its hierarchy. Of course, led by Modi.

The problem is that this is all very consistent now: The Togadias, the Swamys, the Rajiv Malhotras, the Modis. They want to DESTROY India and convert it into a nation where there is no freedom, no free thought, no possibility of peaceful growth and prosperity.

Someone asked me on FB: “don’t you think Indian Muslims have Hindu ancestry.”

MY RESPONSE

“So what? How does it matter to this ASS called Subramanain? DONKEY man. What is his ancestry? MONKEY.”

Snippets first, then the fuller youtube video.

In this first snippet Swamy insists that BJP’s agenda is to make the Ram Mandir, confirming what Togadia has been saying.

In the following snippet, Swamy calls for disenfranchisement of Muslims who deny their ancestors were Hindus.

FULL INTERVIEW:

Looks like this JOKER has an extremely large following. 

With such “LEADERS” of BJP it might be better to just have the stupid socialists back again. It is NOT good enough that he has not been given a Lok Sabha ticket by BJP. That they even accept such a person is a huge issue.

In any event, the need for a liberal party couldn’t be more pressing. 

ADDENDUM

EXTRACT FROM A DEBATE WITH SOMEONE (my comments in normal, i.e. not bold):

What he has said about ancestry of most of the Indian Muslims in India does not seem to be untrue! So also is the case with most Indian Christians.

This may well be so but it is a matter of history, not of politics.

It’s a matter of pride to be associated with Hindu ancestry rather than getting worked up with it.

I disagree. I oppose all religions, since it is religion that has created violence, mayhem, and atrocities (e.g. caste). I am not proud to be a “Hindu” but I believe India has a great future if it follows the good ethical principles.

Even now no one, and least of all Dr. Swamy, preaches unwanted-ness of either Muslims or Christians or those belonging to other religions but all expect patriotism as an Indian from every citizen irrespective religion, caste or creed.

It is not Swamy’s business to ask anyone to swear his/her ancestry. He can mind his own ancestry, which doesn’t appear be better than a lowly monkey’s. If he questions other Indian’s ancestry, I can question his.

This is a case of a POLITICAL LEADER asking for disenfranchisement of a LARGE segment of Indians. These Indians have been living in India for over 1000 years, at a minimum.

In Australia I vote as citizen – a right obtained after living for TWO years in this country. If ANY Australian politician were to question the ancestry of any Indian who votes in Australia, the whole country would turn up on such a RIDICULOUS politician. Such person would be deemed unfit for public life, and shooed away. So is Swamy, by asking questions about other Indians who have lived in India for 1000 years, the most ridiculous person. And should be immediately retired.

From this action, of promoting Swamy, BJP has shown itself to be a bigoted anti-Indian (Muslims are Indians TOO) party. It wants to turn back the clock and bring a delusional era.

I want a society where the government has NOTHING to do with religion. No politics of religion or caste is acceptable.

BJP, because it has elevated Swamy to such a top position, must, in my view, now be ranked last. It must not be allowed to come to power, as it is ANTI-INDIAN.

I stand for a society where the state and religion NEVER mix. That is the liberal position and that is what free societies stand for.

Swamy’s religious beliefs are his personal business but he has no business to threaten to disenfranchise millions of Indians on the grounds of someone’s religion.

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Sanjeev Sabhlok

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45 thoughts on “The ancestors of the BJP senior BIGOT, Subramanian Swamy, must have been MONKEYS
  1. Mrs. Lakshmi

    Mr. Subramanian Swamy’s wife is a PARSI, his daughter married to a MUSLIM, another member married a CHRISTIAN, and another married to a JEW. First of all he has to correct his family. He is talking about others, but when he dies, there will not be any HINDU in his family. His frustration makes him so crazy and as a result he spits VENOM which is a DANGEROUS move to DIVIDE INDIA. JAI HIND.

     
  2. Alex C.

    > With such “LEADERS” of BJP it might be better to just have the stupid socialists back again.

    Do you wonder how/why it is so difficult to get rid of the Congress once and for all? Or why do minorities (religious, linguistic, sexual … ) tend to stay away from BJP?

     
  3. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    I didn’t know that. That makes his stance even more absurd. This is ONE mankind, one species, and India is ONE nation where EVERYONE can happily live. He seems to have gone berserk. Kindly people will test him and if he is found to be “psychologically disabled”, I’ll apologise for my deep anger at his statement. He should be guided into a retirement home.

     
  4. Abraham Joseph

    The core of Oppression of the natives of India by the Traditional Oppressors is the development, preaching and implementation of the Karma Theory. This Karma theory is the basis of justification for the continuation of the caste system. How? One is a scavenger because he did not do the scavenging of his farther’s stool when the forefather was on his death stage. One is a scheduled caste in this life because he was a land lord oppressing his agricultural labourers in his previous birth. Nice theory! But no theory is eternal. Bad theories must be abolished. Talking about eradication of the caste system is only like service and legal paper work service. I request that the Karma theory is a substitute for Muslim and Christian theories of Heaven and Hell or the vice versa. Any theory is a theory only and shall not be made a reality for oppression. Talking about abolishing of the caste system must be talking about abolishing of the Karma Theory. Subramani Swamy and his ilk are supporters of Karma theory. They must be awarded life sentence in the India of Cultural Revolution.

     
  5. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Let’s say that there is enough scope within Hinduism to abolish caste without having to ask anyone to convert to any other belief. Re: Cultural Revolution, I don’t think so. We need FREEDOM, period. And separation of religion and the state.

    s

     
  6. Dr Shailesh G

    If Dr Subramaniyam Swami ś ancestors were monkeys what they were your ancestors were surely a…..es!! Verbal claims apart Mr Sablok I know there are many a…les like your goodselves who have been brought up on poisnous anti-Hindu deĪndianized values so naturally many in your genre cant see the right patḥ. What Mr Swami has opined is 200% truth whatś your problem? The solution of all the traivails of this country is only this correction of this wrong offcourse the method can be considered and second is rid of a…les like you who rant liberal, middle, moderate etc. This very term is ur nemesis in pasṭ Thereś no place for this now! This doesnt mean “Jewsization”. But it doesnt mean tolerating the ill plans of Islam in India eitheṛ If you dont see this threat then you must stop playing here. God who made you a HIndu or the Sablok as your title speaks, I don’t care what you believe yourself to be, you would be one Nehruvian ba….rd donning a gora skin an skulḷ I don’t care of the plethora of such a….leṣ For me, you are just another enemy of Bharat or Aryavart and us, Indians! Sadly, I need real Indians identifying their actual roles but some like you miserable faiḷ. Take care.

     
  7. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    I’ve posted your obnoxious and bigoted comment as demonstration of the kinds of people that India has now grown. And such people are rapidly rising to the top and will DESTROY India.

    I will not discuss/debate. I will continue to oppose such OBNOXIOUS ideas about India.

    Our country was the world’s headquarter of LIBERTY. Now some FOOLS AND DONKEYS are trying to make it Hindu Tablibanised Afghanistan.

     
  8. Manish Sharma

    Dear Mr. Sabhlok,

    I have long followed the career of Dr. Subramaniam Swamy, having been a family friend for six decades. I do think he has evolved into a sort of very intolerant and dangerous crank over the years, sadly.

    That notwithstanding, it does no good to the case against his sort of bigotry to pile on bigotry of your own by branding his ancestors as monkeys and donkeys. Name-calling is childish, and destroys the strength of one’s arguments very quickly.

    And strangely enough, at least one of his ancestors, whom I knew well and respected greatly, was the most secular, tolerant and deeply principled Indians I’ve had the honour to meet.

    Individual personality is a funny thing, as Dr. Swamy’s long descent into hatred and irrationality prove.

     
  9. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Fair comment. Note that all our ancestors were ‘monkeys’. We are all primates. I just wanted to make a strong point re: Swamy’s bigotry against Muslims. People like him are intent on destroying the dream of establishing a Heaven of Freedom in India that Rabindranath Tagore dreamt of. No offence meant to any of his ACTUAL ancestors!
     

     
  10. JAVED

    While I don’t agree that “all our ancestors were ‘monkeys’. We are all primates”, since it is a theory still to be proved. On the other hand I don’t understand the criticism for countervailing him with a monkey! You’ve elevated his stature. He must be grateful to you if he is a real Hindu and promoter of Ram temple/Hindutva, as Hanuman was the closest ally of Lord Ram against Ravana.I don’t think he deserves so importance to be discussed. Countless covetous people like him bombard vicious statements frequently just to gain the publicity in the name of freedom of speech. They don’t assess repercussions of their barking. It’s the core responsibility of state to book such elements. Moreover, morbid media is equally accountable in spreading anarchy.

    Mrs. Lakshmi has well analyzed the facts about his patrimony in her comment above.

     
  11. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Javed, I won’t go into other points. Just that it is absurd beyond the wildest imagination for you to suggest that “it is not proved” that we are primates (monkeys are our second cousins). Sorry, I don’t know where you’ve studied, or what your background is, but kindly start by reading basic science.

    s

     

     
  12. JAVED

    Dear Sanjeev,
    Re: all our ancestors were ‘monkeys’. It was a “theory of Evolution” presented by Charles Darwin in 1859, and very soon it was rejected by renowned Scientists and Scholars. Now it’s more than a century that his theory has been dismissed. Even we were taught Darwin’s theory in our school days, so what? We were also taught that the Sun is stable and planets are in orbit around it. Was that correct? No, later scientist corrected themselves without a sorry. There were hundreds of misconceptions among scientists which were corrected afterwards. My grandfather had rightly corrected me about theory of evolution that for the sake of study and exams it’s okay but fact is different according to our belief in Islam. Everything is created by Almighty in its form and nothing has been evolved by itself. Just to satisfy my curiosity could you please answer few questions below;
    1. If the human beings were transformed from apes and monkeys then why still few species of them are left un-transformed?
    2. When they will be transformed?
    3. Now, Is it the final shape or we will be transformed again to some other being?
    4. Why only apes/monkeys were selected for evolution, why not mice/rats? Since their genetic, biological and behavior characteristics closely resemble to those of humans.
    Please visit below URL which may help you understand the Collapse of Darwinism;
    http://youtu.be/ZS1x-6al2pE

    Charles Darwin himself quoted in his book:
    “IF IT COULD BE DEMONSTRATED THAT ANY COMPLEX ORGAN EXISTED, WHICH COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN FORMED BY NUMEROUS, SUCCESSIVE, SLIGHT MODIFICATIONS, MY THEORY WOULD ABSOLUTELY BREAK DOWN.”
    (The Origin of Species P-189)
    Another quote:
    “Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe, a spirit vastly superior to that of Man.”
    Albert Einstein

     
  13. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Javed, evolution has not collapsed, it has been 100 per cent confirmed in great detail, and many further advances made, through DNA/genome studies. You should try to read basic biology texts first, then graduate to higher knowledge. 

    Your questions are trivial and can be quickly addressed by a grade 9 student (I would have happily answered them in grade 9):

    1. If the human beings were transformed from apes and monkeys then why still few species of them are left un-transformed?
    2. When they will be transformed?
    3. Now, Is it the final shape or we will be transformed again to some other being?
    4. Why only apes/monkeys were selected for evolution, why not mice/rats? Since their genetic, biological and behavior characteristics closely resemble to those of humans.

    I really don’t have time to do this, so encourage you to talk to a good grade 9 student around you.

     

     
  14. JAVED

    Dear Sanjeev,
    If 100% confirmed as you said, then why still called a “theory”? If you’re referring the advances through DNA, then human DNA matches to an extent of 50% to the DNA of a banana, what does it mean?
    If the basis of a theory is incorrect then there’s no sense to stick to it blindly.
    I would be grateful if you could have answered my questions (at least in brief) instead of writing down same questions back to me, or suggesting me to ask a Grade 9 student.
    Please visit the URL I’ve mentioned in my previous comment.

     
  15. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Sorry, Javed, I must encourage you to STUDY the subject for yourself. I really don’t have time to enter into such a “debate”. You’ve got the questions, I’ve give you the pathway. Now don’t also ask me to spend my time to repeat the standard findings of 150 years of research. You should do your homework yourself. You might also need to study astronomy and some physics.

     
  16. JAVED

    Okay dear Sanjeev, agreed. You are free to assume what you think as right and me, my way. But you could at least listen to the world’s great astronomers and physicists;
    @ http://youtu.be/ZS1x-6al2pE
    if you really are in search of truth.

    Re: Indeed it was an Islamic scholar who was among the first to propose the theory of evolution.
    https://www.sabhlokcity.com/2011/07/can-islam-revive-its-golden-age-of-scientific-thought-or-it-it-going-to-remain-hijacked-by-mad-mullahs/

    So what? Still there are hundreds among Muslims who have gone astray and share their stupid views. That doesn’t mean every Muslim need to follow them. Four prominent great Imams (to whom Hanafis, Shaafaes, Hanbalis, and Malikis belong) have said that “if their teaching contradicts to that of holy Qura’n and Sahih Hadith, BANG it on the wall.
    2nd excerpt from Al-Biruni seems to be totally vague, out of context.

     
  17. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Javed, don’t waste my time. Do your homework. Go buy some basic Class 9 books, then keep reading till you go to BSc level books. If you’ve not understood even then talk to ANY biology teacher in the world. Once you’ve done it revert to me.

     
  18. A2

    Great work Sanjiv. I am, since I’ve come to know this monkey/ dullard, even more surprised then you that how he even EXISTS in public life – I mean his assertions are ridiculous, his precepts are dogmatic, and his logic contradictory.
    India, any way was a land of aborigines, People from NE were never historically Hindus, SO? Should not NE be a part of India? I mean advancing his idiotic concept, we will lose every thread of diversity we have in this great country.

    MY QUESTION IS THIS – WHAT THEN? I’m AN ATHEIST, BUT I’M READY TO CALL MYSELF A HINDU AND WILL ALSO CONVERT MY FAMILY TO A HINDU HAPPILY – BUT WHAT IT WILL ACHIEVE? CONSIDER FOR A MOMENT, ALL MUSLIMS ARE WIPED OUT OF INDIA OR ARE CONVERTED (AS RSS/BJP PLANS TO DO) – WHAT THEN? WILL IT DOUBLE OUR GDP? WILL IT REMOVE POVERTY? WHAT WILL HAPPEN? IT’S DIFFICULT TO GRASP LOGIC OF THESE IDIOTS.

    To Javed – Theory of Evolution is a farce. Creationists survive on a circular theory. Kindly do your homework as suggested by Sanjeev before commenting. Quoting Darwin out of context won’t help.

     
  19. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Javed, have a look at this: https://www.sabhlokcity.com/2014/06/rapid-artificial-evolution-genetic-modification-of-wolves-into-400-types-of-dogs-man-made-selection/

    ALL – hundreds of varieties – of dogs have evolved over the past few hundred years through selection (evolution) motivated by man. Also consider the 100s of varieties of cows/ plants created by man.

    Each involves the use of the principles of genetics, which underpin evolution. The only difference: in the case of evolution nature “selects” through survival of the fittest. In the case of dogs, etc. man selects based on preference.

    etc. There are 100s of basic books on this subject. 

     
  20. JAVED

    Is this the limit of your liberalism? It’s not me alone, there are millions in EXISTENCE (for info to A2) in the world who simply reject this theory. You mean to say all of them need to go to grade 9?
    A2- If someone is happy enough by calling his own ancestors apes, monkeys or donkeys, whatever they w ‘ like to, I have no objection at all. But please, don’t apply it to others. Islam has elevated not only Muslims but the whole mankind to a respectable status of “Ashraf-ul-makhluqat” that means ‘Supreme’ among all creations. If you wish to refrain yourself, it’s all your choice….no compulsion. But it will definitely affect your persona calling others perception ridiculous or dogmatic. The same applies to your logic, assertions and perceptions too.
    I’m still liberal enough to a meaningful debate on Islam (not the acts of individual Muslims), without preoccupation, wearing unbiased lens. Whereas, I’ve noticed such debates remained usually unconcluded due to lack of these factors. e.g. see last comments at:
    https://www.sabhlokcity.com/2012/10/im-now-getting-really-angry-with-islam-please-stop-the-taliban-at-once/

     
  21. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    1) ” there are millions in EXISTENCE (for info to A2) in the world who simply reject this theory. You mean to say all of them need to go to grade 9?”

    Of course, there are hundreds of millions of uneducated people. They are entitled to believe whatever they wish. But that doesnt’ make it true. 

    2) “Islam has elevated not only Muslims but the whole mankind to a respectable status of “Ashraf-ul-makhluqat” that means ‘Supreme’ among all creations.”

    See, now you are trying to tell me that your belief system is right. Well, I don’t accept Islam or ANY religion. I have explained clearly that I will ONLY accept ANY concept of God if I find direct proof and the said God can stand before me and answer the 100s of questions I have. ALL my tests of proof will need to be passed, plus those of others. Nothing mysterious and secret will be accepted. 

    In general I tend to use my brain and EVIDENCE, not accept other’s claims about this or that. This, btw, is also part of the same scientific critcal thinking that demonstrates conclusively that evolution is 100 per cent right – and that it can be dramatically speeded up through man-made selection.

    I also understand that most people in the world will never achieve this basic stage of life: of critical thinking, so I have no issues with their believing whatever they wish, so long as they don’t harm others. That’s the liberal position of tolerance and freedom. I am not imposing critical thought on anyone, just saying they are wrong to believe things just because someone says so or these are written in a book.

     
  22. A2

    Well, Javed, you’ve opened a Pandora’s box. To begin with – I’m not against Islam (infact, my father is a Muslim – But I’ve been a HARDLINE atheist since birth) – I mean I can debate the whole thing day-in day-out, but creationists (whose logic implies that we humans went to school with dinosaurs, is so ridiculous – that it only looks bearable in cartoons a la` The Flinstones) will not grasp the scientific reason behind the Structure of Evolution, I mean, there have been many books written by Creationists, Alien Abductees (Ha!) which essentially does a surgeon’s dissection of evolution theory and basically rebuts with needless assertions, out-of-context quotations and implausible derivations.

    I can tell you when you believe something, it’s hard to accept the contrary. True, there evolution theory is not complete yet, we’ve mapped only 6% of universe so far – But the AMAZING thing is STRUCTURE of evolution theory has stood test of time – Example from your real life is Mutation of some mosquito species in sub-saharan Africa and South Asia for resistance against Antibiotics we’ve been using since 1940’s.

    And No, I’m not imposing my views on you. I infact implore you to continue to believe in Islam and its tenets (I follow good Islamic teachings in life myself – No Alcohol, No extra-marital affairs, among others). It’s a good thing in itself.

    Any religion is good – BUT to the point it is personal, non-intervening and unforced. It helps people behave morally (perhaps with the reason good or bad that someone is watching them from sky).

    But taking religion, making it dogmatic, and continuing medieval practices of barbarity and suppression is where I step back from religion.

    Good luck.

     
  23. JAVED

    1) *Contrary to your allegation, I won’t call anybody uneducated/illiterate including you, A2 or any atheist, as the dogma of my liberalism don’t allow it. But the same logic can be applied to the remaining few “EDUCATED”.
    2) Neither I’m trying to tell that only my system of belief is right, nor I am asking you to accept any faith without satisfaction. In my opinion atheists are more reasonable than false worshipers. I was just quoting what holy Qur’an says in (Ch17:V70).
    http://quran.com/17/70
    وَلَقَدْ كَرَّمْنَا بَنِي آدَمَ وَحَمَلْنَاهُمْ فِي الْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ وَرَزَقْنَاهُم مِّنَ الطَّيِّبَاتِ وَفَضَّلْنَاهُمْ عَلَىٰ كَثِيرٍ مِّمَّنْ خَلَقْنَا تَفْضِيلًا
    “And We have certainly honored the children of Adam and carried them on the land and sea and provided for them of the good things and preferred them over much of what We have CREATED, with [definite] preference.”
    Surely, your wish to meet God would be fulfilled, as every soul, whether believer/non- believer has to face the course of assessment. But, instead you’ll be presented before him not He, and rather you’ll be answering His questions. So, just be prepared.
    I appreciate your tendency of using your brain and EVIDENCE. Don’t you think all the reverts to Islam are doing the same. Thus we can say Islam is a complete way of life which demands intelligence.
    I know ‘evolution’ is the root cause of conflict between a believer and a non-believer. Otherwise they’ll have to accept a creator.
    Human nature itself demands critical thinking, applies to every human being. Rather, that’s the core factor which differentiates humans with monkeys or other animals.
    Btw, I’m grateful to you for reading my comments and responding them quite mannerly.

     
  24. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Re: “your wish to meet God would be fulfilled, as every soul, whether believer/non- believer has to face the course of assessment.”

    I don’t mean that way (assuming such things exist). I will NOT accept the idea of God as anything but man-made till I find proofs in front of me, with complete testing. 

    Let me just say that I don’t believe in the Qoran or any other religious book since they expect me to shut my mind. I don’t accept anyone’s dictates to shut my mind and believe anything.

    If a religion is so true, it should have genuine proofs, not assertions.

    You clearly have not bothered to study science nor will do so. Kindly leave this topic, therefore, and move to other things. Unfortunately, the truth is NOT determined by assertion but by evidence.

     

     
  25. JAVED

    A2 – re:
    Really I don’t understand the logic of Darwin’s disciples that while they willingly want to call them inheritors of apes, monkeys and donkeys. But on the other hand they equate others in abusing sense as their own fore-fathers. What a senseless behaviour, and still want to be called educated?
    Why should I respond to your illogical, idiotic comment about Hindus, hinduism and people of North east? Where did I discuss that topic in my comment? Needs evidence.
    You remain atheist or convert to a Hindu or whatever, I don’t care, it’s solely your choice. Don’t be under delusion that anything is going to change by your trivial decision.
    It is obvious that evolution theory be defended by atheists to deny the existence of God, and every attempt of analysis by creationists would be
    “needless assertions, out-of-context quotations and implausible derivations” to them. But what about Darwin’s quote in the same book?
    “IF IT COULD BE DEMONSTRATED THAT ANY COMPLEX ORGAN EXISTED, WHICH COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN FORMED BY NUMEROUS, SUCCESSIVE, SLIGHT MODIFICATIONS, MY THEORY WOULD ABSOLUTELY BREAK DOWN.”
    (The Origin of Species P-189)
    While the theory is based on fossil study. And the question of the relation between these early fossil species and the hominin lineage is still to be resolved. Ref. to your comment “True, there evolution theory is not complete yet, we’ve mapped only 6% of universe so far” then don’t you think hastening to conclusion is immaturity with only “mapping” a meagre 6%?
    Re: Any religion is good – BUT…
    Then why “only” Islam is being intervened with baseless allegations, besides Islam teaches “only” good things?
    The last Para of your comment requires a separate debate since it’s not specific to Islam but individual acts.

     
  26. JAVED

    Dear Sanjeev,
    Ref. to the last Para of your comment, it’s simply a diffence of opinion. An analysis would be waste of time unless all windows of the brain are not kept open, but it lacks usually, for example in your blog referred below;
    https://www.sabhlokcity.com/2014/02/bjpvhpsangh-parivar-are-muslims-christians-who-pretend-to-be-hindu/#comment-559418
    You’ve tried with all valid/invalid efforts to prove the nonsense of BJP/VHP/ Sangh Parivar is due to Muslims/ Christians. Otherwise, they were very peace loving? Where was Islam and Christianity during Maurya dynasty? Wasn’t that massacre Asoka (269–232 BCE) did, was inhuman. Still nobody responded when I raised in the comment of that blog. Mass murdering of tens of thousands can not be justified whatever the reason be.
    So, there are plenty of misconceptions about Islam due to a planned conspiracy. Intention is chiefly emphasized in Islam. Hence, any intention good or bad can be well judged no matter how sweetly it is wrapped.
    Currently I see ‘Jiziyah is more in topic to defame Islam, whilst, I don’t think there is any Islamic country now that collects the Jizyah from non-Muslims. It is an irony, however, that critics of the Islamic Shariah still dwell upon the Jizyah which they consider as a discrimination against non-Muslims. If you analyze the word itself comes from the Arabic root ‘jaza’ which means ‘compensation’. It was to be paid by non-Muslim healthy adult males only, as a protection tax for safety of life and belongings. Comparably, every individual Muslim (even females, children & elderly) had to pay ‘zakath’ with proportion to their wealth, which was many folds more compare to Jizyah. Now, almost all countries collect many types of taxes and fail to provide any security. Whereas, billions of Dollars are being remitted every year to their countries by foreigners (several non-muslims) from Saudia/M East, no tax deducted.
    More details could be found @ http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi
    And further more @ content://com.sec.android.app.sbrowser/readinglist/1103231647.mhtml

     
  27. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    “You’ve tried with all valid/invalid efforts to prove the nonsense of BJP/VHP/ Sangh Parivar is due to Muslims/ Christians.”

    I don’t say their actions are BECAUSE of (or “due to”) Muslims/ Christians. I say they are trying to convert Hinduism into a monolithic entity which it is not. It is not based on any single book/ belief system, but they are trying to make Hinduism into some such thing.

    It is in doing so that they distort the very foudnations of the heterogeniety and diversity of “Hinduism” (there is no such “ism”). There can be no Vishwa Hindu Parishad since there is no such thing as a single kind of “Hindu”. And they are trying to organise a religion which is fundamentally disorganised.

    They are also copying the worst parts (not good parts) of Islam and Christianity – e.g. intolerance/ hatred fo free speech, etc. And yes, violence. Let’s be clear  – there has been no more violent ORGANISED religion than Christianity. Followed by Islam. 

    Btw, the killings of Ashoka were by no means motivated by any religion. Just the desire for conquest. Let’s not mix up religious war with political war. While there were a few religious wars in Hinduism (within its sects, and with Buddhism), it has been remarkably civilised in its approach – through debate/ tolerance, despite massive atrocities on lower castes, etc. That doesn’t mean I’m a Hindu nor tolerate any violence in the name of Hinduism.

    I’m not an apologist for ANY religion, and speak fearlessly about violence and irrationality -regardless of who is perpetrating it.

    s

     
  28. JAVED

    It’s absurd to distort any religion, specially Islam here, to compare any wrongdoing of a group or organization.
    Basically, there is more advantage in organizing a group, if the intention behind is a good cause. No good cause be seen behind VHP/BJP/Sangh Parivar’s organization, except for its political benifits under imperfect religious cover.
    Islam never advocated such duplicity. There was no holy war in Islam like Christianity, if you think so, just point out any one. Rather Islam is the most tolerant faith always called for a debate, please refer to the world famous debates by Rev. Ahmed Deedat, Dr. Zakir Naik and several others with prominent Scholars of Christianity, and Hinduism as well. Also see the backbiting by the so called learned spiritual guru after debate with Dr. Zakir Naik;
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M3tV11ReL-I
    Is there anything left to prove freedom of speech? Besides, Islam refrains any blasphemy against ANY FAITH, that’s the reason you’ll not find single attempt of blasphemy against any faith by the Muslims, despite multiple attacks on Islam. Indeed, there are hundreds of shortcomings in other faiths but never blasphemed by any Muslim, as Islam doesn’t permit it.
    But, our most learned intellectuals take it (only blasphemy) as freedom of speech.
    I suggest you to read Qur’an, not necessarily to believe in it, but to study as any other book (if you’re a truth seeker).
    Al- Quran 5:32 “… whoever kills a soul unless for a soul (in punishment) or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one soul – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.”
    It proves clearly that there is no “worst” part in Islam, where any single soul (not particular to Muslim) is equated with whole mankid in terms of killing or saving.
    Ashoka’s massacre attests the BARBARITY of most civilized nation of their time, for whichever the reason behind it.
    Finally, I need to say that Muslims haven’t been descended directly from heaven, they were, and are among others. They w’d have committed mistakes like others, as it’s the tendency of all human beings, but not to blame on their faith.

     
  29. YSV Rao

    I think it is obvious that this Javed is a pathetic apologists for Islamist which entails him being a pathological liar(no holy war in Islam?hahahahaha)
    Islam never encouraged such duplicity? THe history of Islam especially is replete with duplicity. Muslims routinely broke agreements and truces and treacherously attacked when Hindus were most vulnerable. Raping of women and slavery was routine with Muslim invaders.
    This was not the case with Hindus.

    What is taqqiyah if not duplicity sanctioned by religion?

    That he relies on BIGOTS and SCAM ARTISTS like Deedat and Naik and other degenerate personalities reveals his disgusting character.

    KNOW THIS JAVED, THE REAL REASON FOR MORALLY REPUGNANT ORGANIZATIONS LIKE RSS/BJP/VHP ETC AMONG HINDUS IS BECAUSE OF THE TRACK RECORD OF ISLAM. MANY MISGUIDED HINDUS THOUGHT IT WAS BETTER TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE.

     
  30. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Rao, you’ve crossed the line on this one ” Raping of women and slavery was routine with Muslim invaders” etc.

    And please don’t get personal. I’m publishing but do not endorse this approach of discussion.

     

     
  31. JAVED

    YSV Rao, I think you want to listen and read only hatred to Islam, you can’t digest anything else. Brother, it w’d have been more appreciable if you had answered with any EVIDENCE/PROOF to your allegations, instead of laughing hypocritically. Otherwise there is no meaning in continuing the debate. Why are we wasting our time and of others too? If we really want to make a good and liveable society, then we should think positively. I think you’ve read “yellow” historians. If we write something publicly we must take utmost care. You can point to any individual that too with sufficient evidence, but not to any religion. Because no faith teaches bad doings.
    There is no such a word ‘Taqiyyah’ in the holy Qur’an or hadeeth. This term was invented by the Scholars of Shia’ sect of Islam, which allowed them to conceal their faith when they are under threat, persecution or compulsion.
    You didn’t dare to touch the topic of backbiting for which I’ve provided a URL, a proof.
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M3tV11ReL-I
    instead you tried to defame both the scholars by calling bigots, SCAM ARTISTS etc. Can you provide any evidence as I have provided to you above? Does such a backbiting suit to a scholar of so “prominence”? Is this the essence of “Art of Living Philosophy”? No doubt his aims seem to be good.
    Currently, Islam is being maligned with baseless allegations related to Aurangzeb, Jizyah and Dhimmis.
    Just look at below excerpts (courtesy; Dr. Habib Siddiqui) what non-muslim historians say:
    Babu Nagendranath Banerjee rejected the accusation of forced conversion of Hindus by Muslim rulers by stating that if that was their intention then in India today there would not be nearly four times as many Hindus compared to Muslims, despite the fact that Muslims had ruled for nearly a thousand years. (How many non-muslims know the fact that Muslims ruled India for such a long period? Even plenty of Muslims are unaware of this fact) Banerjee challenged the Hindu hypothesis that Aurangzeb was anti-Hindu by reasoning that if the latter were truly guilty of such bigotry, how could he appoint a Hindu as his military commander-in-chief? Surely, he could have afforded to appoint a competent Muslim general in that position. Banerjee further stated: “No one should accuse Aurangzeb of being communal minded. In his administration, the state policy was formulated by Hindus. Two Hindus held the highest position in the State Treasury. Some prejudiced Muslims even questioned the merit of his decision to appoint non-Muslims to such high offices. The Emperor refuted that by stating that he had been following the dictates of the Shariah (Islamic Law) which demands appointing right persons in right positions.” During Aurangzeb’s long reign of 50 years, many Hindus, notably Jaswant Singh, Raja Rajrup, Kabir Singh, Arghanath Singh, Prem Dev Singh, DilipRoy, and Rasik Lal Crory, held very high administrative positions.
    Two of the highest ranked generals, Jaswant Singh and Jaya Singh, in Aurangzeb’s administration were Hindus. Other notable Hindu generals who commanded a garrison of two to five thousand soldiers were Raja Vim Singh of Udaypur, Indra Singh, Achalaji and Arjuji. One wonders if Aurangzeb was hostile to Hindus, why would he position all those Hindus to high positions of authority, especially, in the military, who could have mutinied against him and removed him from his throne?
    Most Hindus liked Akbar over Aurangzeb for his multi-ethnic/religious court where Hindus were favored. Historian Shri Sharma states that while Emperor Akbar had 14 Hindu Mansabdars (high officials) in his court, Aurangzeb actually had 148 Hindu high officials in his court. (Ref: Mughal Government) But this fact is somewhat less known. It does not require much intelligence to understand the difference between 14 and 148. But when truth is hostage to bigotry, facts are substituted for fiction, 148 may appear to be smaller than 14 to disingenuous historians, and that is an unfortunate reality we face.
    Interestingly, the 1946 edition of history text book, Etihash Parichaya (Introduction to History), used in Bengal, published by the Hindustan Press, 10 Ramesh Dutta Street, Calcutta, for the 5th and 6th graders states: “If Aurangzeb had the intention of demolishing temples to make way for mosques, there would not have been a single temple standing erect in India. On the contrary, Aurangzeb donated huge estates for use as Temple sites and support thereof in Benares, Kashmir, [Javed: Aurangabad Maharashtra, where a locality dominated by 100% Brahmins still named as Aurangpura, just to compliment the generosity of Aurangzeb for the allotment of Jageer to the well known temple situated there. I’ve seen the decree in Persian myself which is still possessed by the temple staff] and many other places too. The official documentations for these land grants are still extant.”
    A stone inscription in the historic Balajior Vishnu Temple, located north of Chitrakut Balaghat, still shows that it was commissioned by the Emperor himself. The proof of Aurangzeb’s land grant for famous Hindu religious sites in Kasi, Varanasi can easily be verified from the deed records extant at those sites. The same text book reads: “During the 50-year reign of Aurangzeb, not a single Hindu was forced to embrace Islam. He did not interfere with any Hindu religious activities.” (p. 138) Alexander Hamilton, a British historian, toured India towards the end of Aurangzeb’s 50-year reign and observed that everyone was free to serve and worship God in his own way.
    It is also evident that since the independence of India in 1947, there has been an overt attempt by revisionist, bigoted Hindu historians in India to malign the Muslim history.
    For details please refer to:
    content://com.sec.android.app.sbrowser/readinglist/1107185856.mhtml
    Jizya: Worthwhile here to point out that Jizya is nothing more than a war tax which was collected only from able-bodied young non-Muslim male citizens living in a Muslim country who did not want to volunteer for the defense of the country. That is, no such tax was collected from non-Muslims who volunteered to defend the country. This tax was not collected from women, and neither from immature males nor from disabled or old male citizens. For payment of such taxes, it became incumbent upon the Muslim government to protect the life, property and wealth of its non-Muslim citizens. If for any reason, when the government felt unable to protect its citizens, especially during a war, the collected amount was returned.
    Zakat (2.5% of savings) and ‘Ushr (10% of agricultural products) were collected from all Muslims, who owned some wealth (beyond a certain minimum, called ‘Nisab’). They also had to pay sadaqah, fitrah and Khums. None of these taxes were collected from any non-Muslim. As a matter of fact, the per capita tax collection from Muslims was several fold that of non-Muslims.
    Before the advent of Islam, Rajputs living in western India used to collect a similar form of Jizya or war tax which they called “Fix” tax, (Ref: Early History of India by Vincent Smith) War tax was not a sole monopoly among the Indian or Muslim rulers. Historian Dr. Tripathy mentions a number of countries in Europe where war-tax was practiced. (Ref: Some Aspects of Muslim Administration by Sri Tripathy)
    In his book “Mughal Administration,” Sir Jadunath Sarkar [Vice Chancellor of the University of Calcutta (1926-28)], foremost historian on the Mughal dynasty, mentions that during Aurangzeb’s reign in power, nearly 65 types of taxes were abolished, which resulted in a yearly revenue loss of 50 million Rupees from the state treasury.
    Earnings of the Emperor (excerpt from ‘The Will Of Aurangzeb’:
    “My servant, Aya Beg, has my purse in which I have carefully kept my earnings of 4 Rs and 2 annas. In my spare time I have been writing the Koran and stitching caps. It was by selling the caps that I made an honest earning of 4 Rs and 2 annas. My coffin should be purchased with this amount.” Aurangzeb did not draw salary from state treasury but earned his own living by selling caps he sewed and selling copies of the Quran he copied by hand. Could anybody show just a single example of such righteousness in any Era in the world?
    Dhimmi (my responsibility, the State confirming it’s responsibility): This Arabic word derived from Dhimma (Zimma) means “the responsibility” since Arabs pronounce ‘Z’ as ‘Dh’. I’m sure every non-muslim in SE Asia must have came across this word in daily conversation e.g ‘kis ke zimme kya kaam hai?” But to my surprise so much vociferation been spread just to denounce Islam. It is nothing but the ‘responsibility’ over Muslim rulers to protect the tax payers of Jizya.
    I think, I’m successful (at least to some extent) in clarifying the doubts/delusions among our Non-muslim brothers and sisters.

     
  32. JAVED

    Re: “Javed, I wrote this post for your consideration.”
    Thanks Sanjeev, I’ll definitely go through it.

     
  33. Raghav

    Subramaniam Swamy is against Privatisation.

    https://twitter.com/swamy39/status/1431767521292476418

    I have a question, I know like people who asked questions.

    Crony Capitalism happens in socialist countries.

    crony capitalism happen in the capitalist country

    It depends on political party and leader, let us assume you become a Prime Minister, Privatise everything as per your vision but regulating everything fairly,

    Another political party make a secret deal with the richest businessman of the country, they get the heavy donation, then that party do heavy propaganda by brainwashing people and winning the election, Now, if they will support only certain favoured businessmen which can create very serious damage to the country.

     
  34. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    There is never going to be perfect liberty (and that’s why libertarianism is never going to happen). What you will have to do is to continuously fight the forces of evil and corruption. Life is not a place where good people always win – it is a place where good people have to keep fighting the evil. The key is to build systems that take into account human incentives. The LESS the permissions/discretion in a system, the less the crony capitalism.

     
  35. Raghav

    good people always make a fool of themselves when they come up against the bad people. good People always need to make compromise to fight against evil but many of them refused to do so.

    Evil people are shrewd, They always make the perfect calculation, look at Amit Shah one of the shrewdest person sitting at the highest position, controlling the country of Billion, Sabotaging the justice system at willpower, destroying all the institutions.

    All the scams under Manmohan government exposed through CAG, while Modi government cleverly put their own people. electoral voting is all about the perception, that elusive perception can be build through various false narratives and propaganda.

    We need those people at our party those who have millions of followers, select those emotional youth who has thousands of followers, Persuit all of them reluctantly and sell the dream to make India as “Sone ki Chidiya again”

    (2^x)

     
  36. Raghav

    What do you think of Raghuram Rajan assessment of Indian economy?

    https://m.economictimes.com/news/economy/indicators/stt-mopup-target-for-fy23-likely-to-be-taised-to-21000-crore/articleshow/89029379.cms (Mr. Raghuram Rajan constantly being worried about the Indian Education for poor children but he must read your suggestions about helping poor children through voucher system)

    Why are you not focusing on Indian economy? You are more concentrated on Australia which is probably your second home but I wish you make more assesment of Indian economy and Indian policies.

    Please do make a comment of this upcoming budget session in parliament.

     
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