I'm deeply concerned. Very angry at this – CONTINUING barbarity by followers of Islam.
My FB post:
Likely cause: that this magazine had published cartoons of Mohammed. If true, then it may be time to consider an embargo on Muslims from the Middle East entering the West. If true, it may be time to consider locking out the barbaric Islamic world from all civilisation. Its influence appears to be sheer poison.
This is just not done – to migrate to free societies (which then feed them, e.g. welfare) and then KILL the people who allowed them into these societies. This is EXTREME viciousness. I reject ANY religion whose followers undertake such dastardly acts.
There are people (and I face some of them on my blog on a daily basis) from extreme versions of Islam and Hinduism who JUST DON'T GET IT: that OTHERS ***DON'T*** HAVE TO RESPECT THEIR MOHAMMED OR RAM OR KRISHNA.
The Enlightenment and Reformation has allowed Christ to be mocked. Christians don't go around shooting those who mock Christ. Christ is mocked on a daily basis by some obnoxious people. Let them mock. That's not ground to shoot them.
Why do these people who claim to follow Islam (or some other religions) don't get this basic message of freedom of speech?
At least 12 people were killed in a shooting Wednesday at a French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, which has published cartoons of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad, police told reporters.
Local news media reported that two police officers were among those killed. Currently, the number of injured people is thought to be around 10, of which five are critically wounded, according to Reuters.
Sulaiman Yakub Loving the Prophet (salla Allah alayhi wa sallam) is a necessary requirement of Iman. Defending his honor is a sign of belief. This is done by following his teachings and practice, not by murdering in his name.
Our Prophet was verbally abused and physically harrased multiple times in Makkah. Never ONCE did any of the Companions go and murder those who did such deeds.
Do those who kill others in the name of the Prophet believe that they love him more than the companions?
And even for those who believe that the penalty for blasphemy should be death: by unanimous consensus of ALL the scholars of Islam, this must take place after a legitimate trial, by a qualified judge, appointed by a legitimate Islamic state. Under NO circumstances does Islam allow vigilante justice, for to open this door leads to chaos, confusion and bloodshed.
Muslims: get your act together!! Such acts of terror are not only haram and spill innocent blood, they will come back to harm you and your communities in the short and long run.
And as a result, all of us will suffer.
Sanjeev Sabhlok Sulaiman Yakub, from the killings of a 100+ children to this, to many other acts in repeated succession – now for decades on end – Islam is implicated. There appears to be something deeply poisonous in this religion, even more than the poison in the average religion. I've recently browsed through some "hate speech" embedded in the Quran, and yes, there is more than its fair share in this religion (almost all religions specialise in hate speech, btw). A very divisive religion, indeed.
I have some excellent Muslim friends on FB. And I know of some Muslims who are fighting these extremists e.g. Mike Ghouse. I admire such people's work.
At the same time, I think all limits and bounds of civilisation are being rapidly crossed by SOME followers of Islam. Fanatic Hindus are following fast, on this trail.
The great problem with the barbaric Middle Eastern nations (where Islam is the only religion allowed) is that they do not tolerate the slightest freedom of speech or opinion.
Even in India, it is the Muslims who have blocked freedom of speech. There is CLEAR evidence that Muslims forced Macaulay to block freedom of speech while drafting the IPC.
I think Islam is now DEEPLY and conclusively implicated in the destruction of liberties across the world.
Unless I see Muslims join me in DEMANDING freedom of speech, I know that the antil-liberaty philosophy of Islam remains a serious obstacle to liberty and progress of India. Just like I criticise RSS and Hindutva fanatics, I object and decry Muslims who won't tolerate free speech.
I have written repeatedly that Indian Muslims must lead the Islamic world by demanding free speech and economic liberty. But how many Muslims have joined me yet on FTI/SCKF/SBP? Only one (and that too, only recently, and he is still figuring out things)
Further notes from this post
Sulaiman Yakub Our Prophet was verbally abused and physically harrased multiple times in Makkah. Never ONCE did any of the Companions go and murder those who did such deeds.
Do those who kill others in the name of the Prophet believe that they love him more than the companions? I have joined SBP and have even volunteered a contribution await bank details to deposit the same but if joining SBP i have to loose my identity then I too will have to revisit the same
Mike Ghouse Sanjeev Sabhlok – hold it please!
I am defending common sense here.
Let’s get those guys and do what the law of the country allows.
New York had 1300 Murders and 3500 Rapes – is it fair to say New Yorkers are rapists and murderers? You cannot blame religion for individual acts.
If a rapists is running around in a neighborhood, everyone is scared, but when you catch him, a sense of safety prevails. If a terrorist kills, everyone is sacred, should we catch the bastard or blame his religion?
Common sense, if we catch the bad guys and punish them, it’s over. If we blame the religion, nothing will happen – and it is downright stupid to blame religion – you cannot kick, kill, hang, beat up or bury it, so why bark at it?
There are always bad people out there – get them. Obama got Osama with a single death and a chopper, whereas Bush killed millions in Iraq and Afghanistan destroyed those nations – and … America with job losses, depressions, divorces, business closures, home bankruptcies and $10 Trillion deficit.
If you are familiar with statistics, you know you cannot call that insignificant percent as representative of Muslims. Bad guys are bad guys, you cannot blame religion.
Prophet Muhammad, like all other religious masters was ridiculed during histime, what did he do? Prayed for the miscreants! We are making a film on that.
Sulaiman Yakub Sanjeev Sabhlok> please do not fall into a trap your ideas r wonderful n perhaps SBP will attract a lot of inteligentia but coming on thick on individuals belief might not work let each one have his space ad long as we are totally agreed on larger issues facing this country. Having divergent views is not a bad thing as long as we can come to a tangible result by consensus
Asim Zaheer Farooqi Unfortunately Sulaiman and Mike, what Sanjeev is saying may actually happen one day. Extremists follow two religions – they follow islam and the extreme ideology taught by some major middle east countries. If the world needs to fix this problem, they first need to fix Saudi Arab. A common muslim believes things being said in Saudi to be islam. It is not. It is plain extremism and promotes covertly even more radicalism. Fixing modern problems of freedom of speech in the muslim world is a two step process. First fix freedom of speech in Saudi and then the rest of the world. You need to fix the root with the basics. So we need to fix saudi with the basics of freedom of speech and religion.
Sanjeev Sabhlok Mike Ghouse, there is a HUGE difference between common crime and organised crime. We detest KKK because it has committed racist crime in an organised manner. Note that this crime, if committed by an Islamic group, is a POLITICAL CRIME – against free speech.
I don't speak like this nor will ever do so, for pathetic "ordinary" criminals who may be found in any particular religion. This, however, is a SYSTEMATIC attack on free speech.
The attack on Malala, the Pakistani school, all represent attacks by SOME Muslims (not all!) on free speech.
Mike Ghouse lives in USA so understands free speech. He vigorously defends free speech. However, most Muslims living outside the West (including in India) don't defend free speech. Blasphemy is a big deal for them. They've even gone and hijacked a UN organisation to resolve that people should respect religion – thereby that blasphemy should be stopped (by force).
No! Respect has to be earned. Islam has not earned my respect, nor has ANY religion. That's why I have no religion.
The problem is that the Muslims continue to fight against free speech, and do not step forward to demand US First Amendment equivalent rights.
Indian Muslims have a key role to play. But they are not playing such a role. Rushdie's Satanic Verses is still banned in India. The RSS is merely following in the footsteps of the Muslims.
The problem DOES start with Saudi Arabia and the Middle East which has ZERO tolerance for other religions and beliefs. People are being regularly massacred if they don't believe Islam.
Why are such people then able to migrate to the West, which has systematically fought for freedom of speech (although rapidly declining in Europe)?
I think Islamic nations must legislate First Amendment equivalent laws, else the West should shut their door on Muslims migrating from the Middle East.
Sanjeev Sabhlok Sulaiman Yakub, I'm glad you are a supporter of liberty (SKC agenda). We DESPERATELY need LEADERS, now. Note that my call is to consider blocking Middle Eastern nations, which are fundamentally illiberal.
There is great hope for India. India DID HAVE a rudimentary free speech protection in 1950 (now virtually eliminated). We are not a theocracy but a republic. All religions are protected.
What we need is Muslims to step up and demand withdrawal of the ban on Rushdie's book – not because they like the book (I've not read it nor intend to read it, so can't comment) – but because they defend the right of ALL people to publish their views.
It is not good enough to be an endorser, now.
Now the time has come to stand up and LEAD.
You will need to do this not as SBP member, but as a Muslim. The Muslims will have to be organised and asked to demand free speech in India.
I'm (personally) against all religions, but that doesn't mean religious people can't join FTI. We insist on protecting their religious freedom.
What I find, though – and I've said so repeatedly – is that Indian Muslims continue to block free speech.
Once Indian Muslims fight FOR free speech, then we can also bring and end to the ridiculous fools called RSS. They are merely copying Muslims.
I've said this MANY times before
Note that I have nothing against people following their religion, so long as it doesn't encroach on the beliefs (or lack thereof) of others. I strongly defend religious rights.
But freedom of speech is NON-NEGOTIABLE.
Now, are you ready to organise a MUSLIM movement in India to demand that all bans, including ban on Rushdie's book, be removed??
Not good enough to endorse SKC agenda (which says precisely this). Someone has to bell the cat, and lead India – and the rest of the Muslim world – to freedom.
Muslim bigotry as the SOLE reason for the growth of Hindu bigotry, RSS and BJP
Sanjeev Sabhlok Indeed, the ENTIRE Middle East is implicated. Islamic nations directly assault free speech at every step.
Sanjeev Sabhlok Ashish Labh reL "many adherents of the religion believe in universal gagging when it comes to criticism or caricaturing of their religion irrespective of where in world it happens". SOME adherents do, not all. There are plenty who oppose any gag on speech.
The problem is that these few who oppose free speech are extremely vicious. The only way they can be curbed is by having all nations agree to the US First Amendment level of freedom of speech.
Or the UN declaration of human rights Article 19 which says: "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions ****without interference**** and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."
Rahul Rana "New York had 1300 Murders and 3500 Rapes – is it fair to say New Yorkers are rapists and murderers?"
Excellent response given by Sanjeev Sabhlok to this typical stupid argument used frequently (by Mike Ghouse this time). Since more people die in car accidents than in terrorist attacks, why don't we declare war on cars?
Mike Ghouse Is Hinduism a violent religion? Did they not kill 8000 Sikhs and a thousand MUSLIMS? It is not the religion, it's the bad hindus like bad muslim or others.
Should America ban Hindus because of what they are doing to Christians?
For every muslim ass, there is a Hindu, Christian Jewsih and Buddhist ass out there,
Sanjeev Sabhlok Mike Ghouse, let's not raise unrelated issues. India has no (recent) tradition of free speech. That, too, is because of Indian Muslims who have blocked it entirely. It is clear to me that the anti-free speech stance of RSS etc. is purely in response to the anti-free speech stance of the Indian Muslims.
You should ask Indian Muslims to support free speech by allowing the ban on Rushdie's book to be lifted.
Re: communal riots in India these matters – within India – have a history of their own that is entirely unrelated to what I'm talking about: fanatic Muslims coming to the West and killing people to block free speech.
I think many Hindus are exercising a very bad influence in the West by trying to reduce free speech protections. But they can't do so in USA.
On the other hand no Hindu in the West has, to date, killed anyone on to block free speech. That is a characteristic PURELY of Islam. Let's call a spade a space and not defend the indefensible.
Instead of downplaying the political crimes of these killers ("others are bad"), please do something to make Islamic societies in the Middle East (and elsewhere) promote free speech.
Alternatively, I believe the West must consider applying broad-brush restrictions on the immigration of Muslims – apart from imposing economic sanctions on Islamic nations.
Sulaiman Yakub, Mike Ghouse etc. – here's a suggestion. Just like I started an Absolute Freedom of Speech page on FB (apart from my writings on this topic), would Indian Muslims start a page called "Indian Muslims against the ban on Rushdie's Satanic Verses"?
It is ACTIONS of this sort that are now needed. Islam is DEEPLY AND CONCLUSIVELY implicated in being the only major religion that fundamentally opposes freedom of speech. Just yesterday, a senior Muslim leader in India called for the killing of all those who "disrespect" Muhammed.
Unless liberal Muslims ACT, the situation will get worse. My biggest problem is that the fanatic Muslims are emboldening the fanatic Hindus. Both are growing in power and violence, each drawing support from the other.
But it all BEGINS with Islam. Of that, I have absolutely no doubt.
Let Indian Muslims break that cycle by demanding an end to all bans, all censorship in India.