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Quran is 100 per cent man made (and so are Vedas, Bible and the lot). And no, I don’t care about your propaganda.

An angry Muslim reader of my blog has unsubscribed. His grievance: that I don’t wish to read a website that he sent me (http://www.harunyahya.com/).

I actually do read voraciously – thousands of pages each month. Tens of thousands of pages each year. But these are mostly from peer reviewed journals or VERY high quality books. Someone has to be a world-class thinker for me to spend time on his/her work.

Now this is what happened in this case:

Mohammed Shahid Shaikh wrote by email:

This has reference to your open challenge :
Kindly refer to the site www.harunyahya.com for your reply.
Now I challenge you if you have the guts, to reply with an open mind without imposing your views which lacks any justification.

I wrote back:

Didn’t I say – send PEER REVIEWED SCIENCE JOURNAL ARTICLES?
Don’t send religious propaganda. That’s pure nonsense.

Mohammed Shahid Shaikh wrote:

This isn’t religious propaganda . but rock solid scientific proof where Darwin and followers of Darwinism are decimated.
You should have the guts to read the facts before pronouncing the verdict.

My response:

Sorry, ONLY scientific journals. If you write to me again without such journal references, I’ll mark your email to spam.

Mohammed Shahid Shaikh’s response:

No need.
I ‘m unsubscribing from your blogs and posts.
No need of your blogs.

That’s fine. I didn’t force you to subscribe. You are most welcome to leave when you think I don’t add any more value to your way of thinking.

Let me repeat: Quran is 100 per cent man made (and so are the Vedas, Bible and the lot). And no, I don’t care about your propaganda.

Now, I’m not denying your right to delude yourself (religion). It is a fundamental freedom. Everyone must have it. But my standard of proof is very high. You can’t send me a general URL of a propaganda site and expect me to read it. Send me a solid, peer reviewed science journal if you wish me to even consider the possibility that your delusion/s may be worthy of any respect.

Respect has to be earned. I respect you as an equal human but I have no respect for your false beliefs. Please understand, I don’t live for today. I live for the TRUTH. And the truth is for ever.

I will never propagate anything that is not going to rank alongside other true things 1000 years from now.

All your religions will be treated as interesting writings; poetry or literature 1000 years from now. Not ONE person will “believe” them. But the truth will go on. And on. And on.

Satyameva Jayate. The truth always triumphs. And it doesn’t need any force to triumph: it is so powerful that falsehoods just disappear.

Sanjeev Sabhlok

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72 thoughts on “Quran is 100 per cent man made (and so are Vedas, Bible and the lot). And no, I don’t care about your propaganda.
  1. sangeeta

    Glad to have come to your blog. I went through your site, got to know about your past, (IAS, FTI etc) and thrilled by your efforts for the motherland India. Feel proud of you.

    But was saddened deeply by your bashing at cow eating, hindu beliefs, Vedas, dharma etc.

    Parhaps that’s may be the key reason your not being successful at politics in India. That’s my sincere opinion.

    I wondered at your present post. Vedas are said to be apourusheya meaning not written by human IN GENERAL.

    What made you think that men cannot be apourushaya at all?

    In Sanatan Dharma, Yoga it has amply been said that it is the men who become the Ishwar (by rising through yoga) and take the form of apourushaya. Such Jnanis are apourushaya.

    Thus Vedas are written by Jnani men. Men are not ALL jnani. One jnani can be there among thousands of crores of men!

    Therefore Vedas are apourushaya for this reason and at the same time written by exceptional men (like Shiva, Krishna who are MEN but not ordinary).

     
  2. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    This is funny. First a number of Muslims get angry because all they offer me is SMOKE! to prove that Quran is not man-made.

    Now you make these claims – “In Sanatan Dharma, Yoga it has amply been said that it is the men who become the Ishwar (by rising through yoga) and take the form of apourushaya”!

    For God’s sake, show me ONE meaningful piece of knowledge in the Vedas that is equal to or greater in quality than what mankind knows today. All sorts of jokes about “vimaans” and the lot exist, but not one shred of proof!

    Modi the joker even said they had plastic surgery and grafted and elephant on a man (Ganesha).

    Do you expect me (or anyone with any sense) to believe all this!!

    You too – provide me ONLY with peer reviewed science journal articles that confirm every “fact” asserted in the Vedas.

    Let me say once again: ALL religious books – no exception – are the imagination of men. Some are interesting, well written, etc. But NONE display anything but the DEEP ignorance that men of that time had.

    I believe God (if he/she/it) exists, is NOT ignorant. That proves these are all man-made.

    Now, as for the rest of what I do (public policy reform) – that’s something you should carefully read, even if you don’t believe one word of my assertions against the religious books.

    The SKC agenda can save India from its total misery, poverty and corruption.

     
  3. sangeeta

    -/show me ONE meaningful piece of knowledge in the Vedas that is equal to or greater in quality than what mankind knows today. All sorts of jokes about “vimaans” and the lot exist, but not one shred of proof!/-

    /provide me ONLY with peer reviewed science journal articles that confirm every “fact” asserted in the Vedas./

    /ALL religious books – no exception – are the imagination of men. Some are interesting, well written, etc. But NONE display anything but the DEEP ignorance that men of that time had./

    Vedas show you who you are and what else is! That’s the ultimate quest which a human being can ever have!

    The material knowledge which you are referring to is infinite in nature and its utility always intangible i.e. with more and more convenience with lesser and lesser content/happiness. Such knowledge devolves humanity! e.g. human beings in olden days were much much happier than they are today (the only way to confirm it is literature)

    Once you know who you are and what else is, the whole universe can be at your disposal then what the hell you all talk about just vimans, satellites and all that!

    Now about proof and evidence:

    Proof and evidence can never be any independent standards of judging the truth. Their universality arises out of the ONENESS of life which the Vedas seek to teach! Once one’s consciousness/awareness fine tunes to this oneness through yoga or otherwise, the every quanta/atom of universe can be at his disposal. Now such achievers are not there doesn’t mean that’s imaginary. Such a knowledge is still there!

    /The SKC agenda can save India from its total misery, poverty and corruption./

    For your kind information, misery, poverty and corruption can be rooted out not through material knowledge/prosperity but by knowing what these are and what they are!

    Science is incapable of this knowledge. It can at the most be convenient. Knowledge lies within ONESELF!

    Realization can only be the way to solution of all human problems!

    Thank you sir!

    Looking at your background sometimes I feel choti muh badi baat about myself!

     
  4. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Sorry, but what you’ve said is just hype and delusion. (“Vedas show you who you are and what else is!”)

    I’m not interested in what ignorant people (e.g. authors of the Vedas) say about anything. They neither knew ANYTHING about human beings (as a species of animal) or about anything else (“what else is”).

    Steeped in severe ignorance, they SPECULATED. That was fine for their time. That speculation is not good enough for people today.

    Let’s not waste time with the Vedas.

    “poverty and corruption can be rooted out not through material knowledge/prosperity but by knowing what these are and what they are!” – are you joking!!!!!

    India has had all the religious books and priests and other jokers for 2000 years. The only sensible person was Chanakya who was an ace economist.

    But no one understands Chankaya in India. Instead, they babble the way you do about spiritual nonsense. And the crooks – the “gurus” and politicians – exploit this babble to enrich themselves, loot and pillage.

    Try to read SKC agenda and tell me if you understand it. You could start with BFN (Breaking Free of Nehru).

    Now, pl. don’t waste my time again with Vedas and such poetic delusions. We can talk public policy once you understand economics. You can try Chanakya if I’m too hard to understand.

     
  5. sangeeta

    Anyway,

    Seems you rely a lot on proof and evidences!

    Wondered at your gross negligence on the same //Proof and evidence can never be any independent standards of judging the truth. Their universality arises out of the ONENESS of life which the Vedas seek to teach! Once one’s consciousness/awareness fine tunes to this oneness through yoga or otherwise, the every quanta/atom of universe can be at his disposal. Now such achievers are not there doesn’t mean that’s imaginary. Such a knowledge is still there!//

    Your knowledge on proof and evidence? (Be sure science has not yet reached the stage discussed in above para)

    May be I would be able to judge the seriousness at which to discuss with you!

     
  6. Iniyavel Sugumar

    Sangeeta,

    I’m yet to find someone who can actually prove Vedanta to me. Believing you will, I ask you the same:

    a. If we came from god as you claim, then why are we not like him? You know, the benevolent god, the great, the merciful, etc? Why are we so different from each other in the first place?

    b. How can you become Ishwar via Yoga? If you can become that way, why did you become human in the first place? What made you a human and different from the benevolent Ishwar?

    c. If everything is an illusion as you all claim, then what on earth is REALITY? Do you doubt what goes on in front of your eyes? Is it an illusion? Are you all high on crack to claim everything is illusion?

    These are just 3 questions out of a lot I can ask and switch off all Vedanta scholars. You know, those who follow the great “Vedas”, the words of god which you all claim the west stole from you and developed all their modern technology using? :)

    Waiting for a proper and appropriate answer. :)

    Signed…
    Iniyavel Sugumar
    ..

     
  7. Masthan Reddy

    Sir, I always follow your blogs and read almost everything. I have one simple question for you sir.. “Have you experienced anything in life that is beyond your 5 senses and imagination of mind?”..

    I did. I don’t attribute it to the God.. Or somebody else. But I am 100% sure that science has discovered only miniscule of the existence. So is it not better to say “I do not know”, than saying “It is not” simply because science has not proved it yet.
    This reply is not for the books you are referring to.. But in general about science and beyond.

     
  8. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Science (reason) is the only thing we have.

    Junk statements by speculative men 5000 years ago don’t mean anything.

    Treat these statements as you would treat ancient literature. Not as sources of the truth.

     
  9. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    This is actually not my point. My point is that the FACTS in these documents are FALSE, and only related to the facts known to mankind at that primitive stage. God doesn’t have false facts. So these documents are man-made.

    It is POINTLESS to try to debate vedanta or other ancient speculations. That’s not the purpose of this post. The purpose is to prove without any iota of doubt that all religious documents are MAN MADE.

    s

     
  10. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    I am NOT denying God. I don’t know anything about God.

    I’m saying that ALL religions are man made and false.

    Learn to distinguish between things.

    Re: your experience, please be sure that it is a form of self-delusion. The human brain can readily do that. Go and read some basic brain science.

    You are also confusing my statement re: man made religions with an alleged implication that I am claiming science is perfect. You are surely confused. Kindly read DOF.

     
  11. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    RECEIVED BY EMAIL FROM Asif Mistry

    RELIGION AND SCIENCE

    There is, perhaps, no better illustration of the close links between Islam and science than the Prophet Muhammad’s often-quoted statements:

    “Seeking knowledge is compulsory on every Muslim.”

    “wisdom is the lost property of the believer.”

    “whoever follows a path seeking knowledge, Allah will make his path to paradise easy.”

    These statements and many others are veritable invitations to humanity to enrich their knowledge from all sources. It comes as no surprise, therefore, to learn that in Islam religion and science have always been considered as twin sisters and that today, at a time when science has taken such great strides, they still continue to be associated. Nor is it a surprise to learn that certain scientific data are used for the better understanding of the Qur’anic text. What is more, in a century where, for many people, scientific truth has dealt a deathblow to religious belief, it is precisely the discoveries of science that, in an objective examination of the Islamic scripture, have highlighted the supernatural nature of revelation and the authenticity of the religion which it taught.

    When all is said and done, scientific knowledge seems, in spite of what many people may say or think, to be highly conducive to reflection on the existence of God. Once we begin to ask ourselves, in an unbiased or unprejudiced way, about the metaphysical lessons to be derived from some of today’s knowledge, (for example our evolving knowledge of the smallest components of matter or the questions surrounding the origin of life within inanimate matter), we indeed discover many reasons for thinking about God. When we think about the remarkable organization presiding over the birth and maintenance of life, it becomes clear that the likelihood of it being the result of chance lessens quite considerably.

    As our knowledge of science in the various fields expands, certain concepts must seem increasingly unacceptable. For example, the idea enthusiastically expressed by the recent French winner of the Nobel prize for medicine, that living matter was self-created from simple chemical elements due to chance circumstances. Then from this point it is claimed that living organisms evolved, leading to the remarkably complex being called man. To me, it would seem that the scientific advancements made in understandithe fantastic complexity of higher beings provides stronger arguments in favor of the opposite theory: that the existence of an extraordinarily methodical organization presiding over the remarkable arrangement of the phenomena of life necessitates the existence of a Creator.

    In many parts of the Book, the Qur’an, encourages this kind of general reflection but also contains infinitely more precise data which are directly related to facts discovered by modern science. It is precisely this data which exercise a magnetic attraction for today’s scientists.

    The Qur’an And Science

    For many centuries, humankind was unable to study certain data contained in the verses of the Qur’an because they did not possess sufficient scientific means. It is only today that numerous verses of the Qur’an dealing with natural phenomena have become comprehensible. A reading of old commentaries on the Qur’an, however knowledgeable their authors may have been in their day, bears solemn witness to a total inability to grasp the depth of meaning in such verses. I could even go so far as to say that, in the 20th century, with its compartmentalization of ever-increasing knowledge, it is still not easy for the average scientist to understand everything he reads in the Qur’an on such subjects, without having recourse to specialized research. This means that to understand all such verses of the Qur’an, one is nowadays required to have an absolutely encyclopedic knowledge embracing many scientific disciplines.

    I should like to stress, that I use the word science to mean knowledge which has been soundly established. It does not include the theories which, for a time, help to explain a phenomenon or a series of phenomena, only to be abandoned later on in favor of other explanations. These newer explanations have become more plausible thanks to scientific progress. I only intend to deal with comparisons between statements in the Qur’an and scientific knowledge which are not likely to be subject to further discussion. Wherever I introduce scientific facts which are not yet 100% established, I will make it quite clear.

    There are also some very rare examples of statements in the Qur’an which have not, as yet, been confirmed by modern science. I shall refer to these by pointing out that all the evidence available today leads scientists to regard them as being highly probable. An example of this is the statement in the Qur’an that life has an aquatic origin ( “And I created every living thing out of water” Qur’an, 21:30 ).

    These scientific considerations should not, however, make us forget that the Qur’an remains a religious book par excellence and that it cannot be expected to have a scientific purpose per se. In the Qur’an, whenever humans are invited to reflect upon the wonders of creation and the numerous natural phenomena, they can easily see that the obvious intention is to stress Divine Omnipotence. The fact that, in these reflections, we can find allusions to data connected with scientific knowledge is surely another of God’s gifts whose value must shine out in an age where scientifically based atheism seeks to gain control of society at the expense of the belief in God. But the Qur’an does not need unusual characteristics like this to make its supernatural nature felt. Scientific statements such as these are only one specific aspect of the Islamic revelation which the Bible does not share.

    Throughout my research I have constantly tried to remain totally objective. I believe I have succeeded in approaching the study of the Qur’an with the same objectivity that a doctor has when opening a file on a patient. In other words, only by carefully analyzing all the symptoms can one arrive at an accurate diagnosis. I must admit that it was certainly not faith in Islam that first guided my steps, but simply a desire to search for the truth. This is how I see it today. It was mainly the facts which, by the time I had finished my study, led me to see the Qur’an as the divinely-revealed text it really is.

     
  12. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    You haven’t got my point. This is about my proof that the “facts” used in the Old Testament and Quran are false. These are speculations (including the water speculation you have mentioned) that were common among many other speculations in that time and period. Tribals also had similar speculations.

    I will no longer respond here. I’m posting your comment and my response on my blog.

    I do not engage in private conversations since these issues are of global significance.

    Please respond on my blog

     
  13. asif

    AUTHENTICITY OF QUR’AN

    Before getting to the essence of the subject, there is a very important point which must be considered: the authenticity of the Qur’anic text.

    It is known that the text of the Qur’an was both recited from memory, during the time it was revealed, by the Prophet and the believers who surrounded him, and written down by designated scribes among his followers. This process lasted for roughly twenty-three years during which many unofficial copies were made. An official copy was made within one year after the Prophet’s death at the instruction of Caliph Abu Bakr.

    Here we must note a highly important point. The present text of the Qur’an benefited in its original preparation from the advantage of having its authenticity cross-checked by the text recited from memory as well as the unofficial written texts. The memorized text was of paramount importance at a time when not everyone could read and write, but everybody could memorize. Moreover, the need for a written record was included in the text of the Qur’an itself. The first five verses of chapter al-‘Alaq, which happen to constitute the first revelation made to the Prophet (S), express this quite clearly:

    “Read: In the name of your Lord who created. Who created man from a clinging entity. Read! Your Lord is the most Noble, Who taught by the pen. Who taught man what he did not know.” Qur’an, 96:1-5

    These are surely words in “praise of the pen as a means of human knowledge”, to use Professor Hamidullah’s expression.

    Then came the Caliphate of ‘Uthman (which lasted from the twelfth to the twenty-fourth year following Muhammad’s death). Within the first two years of Caliph ‘Uthman’s rule, seven official copies were reproduced from the official text and distributed throughout a large area of the world which had already come under Islamic rule. All unofficial copies existing at that time were destroyed and all future copies were made from the official seven copies.

    In my book, The Bible, the Qur’an and Science, I have quoted passages from the Qur’an which came from the period prior to the Hijrah (the Prophet’s emigration from Makkah to Madeenah in the year 622) and which allude to the writing of the Qur’an before the Prophet’s departure from Makkah.

    There were, moreover, many witnesses to the immediate transcription of the Qur’anic revelation.

    Professor Jacques Berque has told me of the great importance he attaches to it in comparison with the long gap separating the writing down of the Judeo-Christian revelation from the facts and events which it relates. Let us not forget that today we also have a number of manuscripts of the first written versions of the Qur’an which were from a time period very close to the time of revelation.

    I shall also mention another fact of great importance. We shall examine statements in the Qur’an which today appear to merely record scientific truth, but of which men in former times were only able to grasp the apparent meaning. In some cases, these statements were totally incomprehensible. It is impossible to imagine that, if there were any alterations to the texts, these obscure passages scattered throughout the text of the Qur’an, were all able to escape human manipulation. The slightest alteration to the text would have automatically destroyed the remarkable coherence which is characteristic to them. Change in any text would have prevented us from establishing their total conformity with modern knowledge. The presence of these statements spread throughout the Qur’an looks (to the impartial observer ) like an obvious hallmark of its authenticity.

    The Qur’an is a revelation made known to humans in the course of twenty-three years. It spanned two periods of almost equal length on either side of the Hijrah. In view of this, it was natural for reflections having a scientific aspect to be scattered throughout the Book. In a study, such as the one we have made, we had to regroup the verses according to subject matter, collecting them chapter by chapter.

    How should they be classified? I could not find any indications in the Qur’an suggesting any particular classification, so I decided present them according to my own personal one.

    It would seem to me, that the first subject to deal with is Creation. Here it is possible to compare the verses referring to this topic with the general ideas prevalent today on the formation of the Universe. Next, I divided up verses under the following general headings: Astronomy, the Earth, the Animal and Vegetable Kingdoms, Humans, and Human Reproduction in particular. Furthermore, I thought it useful to make a comparison between Qur’anic and Biblical narrations on the same topics from the point of view of modern knowledge. This has been done in the cases of Creation, the Flood and the Exodus. The reason that these topics were chosen is that knowledge acquired today can be used in the interpretation of the texts.

     
  14. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    God (if he/she/it) exists, is supposed to know everything.

    In the Quran there are a LOT of false facts, and deep ignorance about the creation of this universe and mankind.

    QED.

     
  15. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Quran has NOTHING to do with God, since it is full of factual ignorance and error. It is NOT a revelation; just a creative work of art.

    Even ONE error is sufficient to disprove its “revelation” claim. God makes no mistakes.

    In fact, ALL religious “revelation” is full of mistakes, hence 100 per cent man made.

     
  16. Asif

    You said (In the Quran there are a LOT of false facts, and deep ignorance about the creation of this universe and mankind.) That means you have not gone through Quran at all there are many scientific facts proved in Quran from creation of universe to mankind check below.

    CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE
    From an examination of creation as described in the Qur’an, an extremely important general concept emerges: The Qur’anic narration is quite different from the Biblical narration. This idea contradicts the parallels which are often wrongly drawn by Western authors to emphasize the resemblance between the two texts. To stress only the similarities, while silently ignoring the obvious dissimilarities, is to distort reality. There is, perhaps, a reason for this.

    When talking about creation, there is a strong tendency in the West to claim that Muhammad copied the general outlines mentioned in the Qur’an from the Bible. Certainly it is possible to compare the six days of creation as described in the Bible, plus an extra day for rest on God’s Sabbath, with this verse from chapter al-A‘raaf.

    “Your Lord is God who created the heavens and the earth in six days.” Qur’an, 7:54

    However, it must be pointed out that modern commentators stress the interpretation of the Arabic word ayyaam, (one translation of which is ‘days’), as meaning ‘long periods’ or ‘ages’ rather than periods of twenty-four hours.

    What appears to be of fundamental importance to me is that, in contrast to the narration contained in the Bible, the Qur’an does not lay down a sequence for creation of the earth and heavens. It refers both to the heavens before the earth and the earth before the heavens, when it talks of creation in general, as in this verse of chapter Taa Haa:

    “(God) who created the earth and heavens above.” Qur’an, 20:4

    In fact, the notion derived from the Qur’an is one of a parallelism in the celestial and terrestrial evolutions. There are also basic pieces of information concerning the existence of an initial gaseous mass ( dukhaan ) which are unique to the Qur’an. As well as descriptions of the elements which, although at first were fused together ( ratq ), they subsequently became separated (fatq). These ideas are expressed in chapters Fussilat and al-Anbiyaa:

    “God then rose turning towards the heaven when it was smoke” Qur’an, 41:11

    “Do the disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, then I split them apart?” Qur’an, 21:30

    According to modern science, the separation process resulted in the formation of multiple worlds, a concept which appears dozens of times in the Qur’an. For example, look at the first chapter of the Qur’an, al-Faatihah:( “Praise be to God, the Lord of the Worlds.” Qur’an, 1:1 ). These Qur’anic references are a11 in perfect agreement with modern ideas on the existence of primary nebula (galactic dust), followed by the separation of the elements which resulted in the formation of galaxies and then stars from which the planets were born. Reference is also made in the Qur’an to an intermediary creation between the heavens and the earth, as seen in chapter al-Furqaan:

    “God is the one who created the heavens, the earth and what is between them…” Qur’an, 25:59

    It would seem that this intermediary creation corresponds to the modern discovery of bridges of matter which are present outside organized astronomical systems.

    This brief survey of Qur’anic references to creation clearly shows us how modern scientific data and statements in the Qur’an consistently agree on a large number of points. In contrast, the successive phases of creation mentioned in the Biblical text are totally unacceptable. For example, in Genesis 1:9-19 the creation of the earth (on the 3rd day) is placed before that of the heavens (on the 4th day). It is a well known fact that our planet came from its own star, the sun. In such circumstances, how could anyone claim that Muhammad, the supposed author of the Qur’an, drew his inspiration from the Bible. Such a claim would mean that, of his own accord, he corrected the Biblical text to arrive at the correct concept concerning the formation of the Universe. Yet the correct concept was reached by scientists many centuries after his death.

     
  17. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    “modern commentators stress the interpretation of the Arabic word ayyaam, (one translation of which is ‘days’), as meaning ‘long periods’ or ‘ages’ rather than periods of twenty-four hours.”

    If God had actually spoken to Mohammed he would not have spoken in riddles. God (if he/she/it exists) KNOWS precisely how things began.

    Such round-about ways are purely man-made. Just like telepaths and astrologers who say general things that can be interpreted in any way.

    At a minimum God would have provided a few mathematical formulae, e.g. E=mc2.

    Clearly the whole thing is a farce – just clever imagination by Mohammed.

    Note that even ONE false or incomplete/insufficient statement is sufficient to debunk the claim of “revelation”.

     
  18. asif

    Clarification no 1

    Even if someone translates it as days then he should remember that those ‘days’ are not the 24 hour days but are the days in sight of Allah.

    Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning(Surah Hajj 22:47)

    Other Than Quran we need look into Hadith From Prophet Mohammed.

    Clarification no 2

    There are few ahadith (sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW)) which speak of some detail of creation. For instance:

    Abu Huraira reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) took hold of my hands and said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and lie caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (peace be upon him) after ‘Asr on Friday; the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i. e. between afternoon and night.

    Shahih Muslim :: Book 39 : Hadith 6707

    A non Muslim might argue that we Muslims say that the Quran speaks of the six period creation then why is this Hadith using the words Saturday, Sunday etc which are only used for a 24 hours day. A clarification is required that the description given in the above hadith is not of the six period creation mentioned in the Holy Quran. These happenings are after the six day creation, after the formation of universe and the earth. The above hadith mentions seven complete days and not the six days.

    And also for your information we cannot judge correctness of Quran through Modern Day translator to understand quran you have to understand quran in its Very Own language that is Arabic which was revealed in Arabic for Mankind not only for Muslims.

     
  19. asif

    CREATION IN SIX DAYS
    Your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then settled Himself firmly on the Throne… (Qur’an, 7:54)
    One example of the harmony between the Qur’an and modern science is the subject of the age of the universe. Cosmologists estimate the age of the universe as 16-17 billion years. The Qur’an states that the entire universe was created in six days. These two time frames, which may seem contradictory, are actually surprisingly compatible. In fact, both these figures concerning the age of the universe are correct. In other words, the universe was created in six days, as revealed in the Qur’an, and this period corresponds to 16-17 billion years in the way that we experience time.
    In 1915 Einstein proposed that time was relative, that the passage of time altered according to space, the speed of the person travelling and the force of gravity at that moment. Bearing in mind these differences in the passage of time, the period of time in which the universe was created as revealed in seven different verses of the Qur’an is actually highly compatible with scientists’ estimations. The six-day period revealed in the Qur’an can be thought of as six periods. Because, taking into account the relativity of time, a “day” refers only to a 24-hour period experienced on Earth under current conditions. Elsewhere in the universe, however, at another time and under other conditions, a “day” could refer to a much longer period of time. Indeed, the word “ayyamin” in the period of six days (sittati ayyamin) in these verses (Qur’an 32:4, 10:3, 11:7, 25:59, 57:4, 50:38, and 7:54) means not only “days,” but also “age, period, moment, term.”
    In the first period of the universe, the passage of time took place much faster than that with which we are familiar today. The reason for this is that, at the moment of the Big Bang, our universe was compressed into a very small point. The expansion of the universe and increase in its volume ever since the moment of that explosion has extended the borders of the universe to millions of light years. Indeed, the stretching of space ever since that moment has had very important ramifications for universal time.
    The energy at the moment of the Big Bang slowed down the flow of time 1012 (one million million) times. When the universe was created the speed of universal time was higher up to a million million times, as time is experienced today. In other words, a million million minutes on Earth is the equivalent of just one minute in universal time.
    When a six-day period of time is calculated according to the relativity of time, it equates to six million million (six trillion) days. That is because universal time flows a million million times faster than time on Earth. Calculated in terms of years, 6 trillion days equates to approximately 16.427 billion years. This is within the estimated range for the age of the universe.
    6,000,000,000,000 days/365.25 = 16.427104723 billion years
    Allah, there is no god but Him, the Living, the Self-Sustaining. He is not subject to drowsiness or sleep. Everything in the heavens and the earth belongs to Him. Who can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them but they cannot grasp any of His knowledge save what He wills. His Footstool encompasses the heavens and the earth and their preservation does not tire Him. He is the Most High, the Magnificent.
    (Qur’an, 2:255)
    On the other hand, each of the six days of creation equates to very different periods, as we perceive time. The reason for this is that the speed of the passage of time declines in proportion to the expansion of the universe. Ever since the Big Bang, as the size of the universe doubled, so the passage of time halved. As the universe grew, the speed at which the universe doubled increasingly slowed down. This rate of expansion is a scientific fact acknowledged the world over and described in the text book The Fundamentals of Physical Cosmology. When we calculate every day of creation in terms of Earth time, the following situation emerges:
    • Looked at from the moment when time began, the first day of creation (first phase) lasted 24 hours. This period, however, is the equivalent of 8 billion years in Earth terms.
    • The second day of creation (second phase) lasted 24 hours. This, however, lasted half as long, in our terms, as the preceding day, in other words 4 billion years.
    • The third day (third phase) lasted half as long as the second day, in other words 2 billion years.
    • The fourth day (fourth phase) lasted 1 billion years.
    • The fifth day (fifth phase) lasted 500 million years.
    • And the sixth day (sixth phase) lasted 250 million years.
    • Conclusion: When the six days of creation, in other words the six phases, are added together in Earth terms, the resulting figure is 15 billion 750 million years. This figure displays an enormous parallel with modern-day estimations.
    This conclusion is one of the facts revealed by 21st century science. Science has once again confirmed a fact revealed in the Qur’an 1,400 years ago. This harmony between the Qur’an and science is one of the miraculous proofs that the Qur’an is the revelation of Allah, the Creator, the Omniscient.

     
  20. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    “Even if someone translates it as days then he should remember that those ‘days’ are not the 24 hour days but are the days in sight of Allah.”

    I’m afraid God (I will not take the name of Allah since that’s a specific name used by Muslims, but my point is generic) – if he/she/it were to ever visit the Earth would know that he/she/it needs to speak in the language of the humans and in their time frame. As I said, God is all knowing (presumably) and so will know precisely how many human (Earth) years ago (billions – up to the last second) the Big Bang took place. He would provide all necessary equations, to confirm he/she/it is indeed God.

    Imagine if God comes to me. I’m going to grill him to confirm that he is not my hallucination. I’ve got 100s of questions to check the he/she/it is actually God. God must not fail even once in giving the right answer.

    So, Mohammed, without checking that the “God” he heard was real, simply made statements to the people. I’m afraid that’s incorrect methodology. Also, Mohammed could have asked to print a single copy of the Quran properly, so no human intervention was needed to recreate it from his speech. I’m assuming God is capable of printing a book. If he can’t do it, then he is not God.

    So, if God were to come to me, trust me I’d provide SOLID PROOFS that would be irrefutable. Mohammed did not provide any such proofs.

    Even ONE mistake is enough to prove that the Quran is man made. And so also for all other religious books. ALL man made.

    Let historians study these pieces of poetry and literature. Nothing stops people from adopting any good things they find in them, either. But these should be treated as any other piece of human literature.

    s

     
  21. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    No, no!! Please don’t bombard me with these “deductions” of various people about what six days means. If “God” can’t even make a single, accurate factual statement for people to understand and verify, he is no god.

    Get over it!! Mohammed simply stated these verses (assuming Mohammed existed – some people are even questioning that, but I’m not going to comment on that) and CLAIMED these were dictated by God. But even the most elementary questioning proves no real God would make such basic blunders.

     
  22. asif

    Dear God didnt make any blunder to explain his creation nor Prophet Mohammed Did in explaining this verses.

     
  23. asif

    Quran’s Universality

    “This is the Scripture in which there is no doubt, containing guidance for those who are mindful of God, who believe in the unseen…” (Quran, 2:2-3).

    The Quranic message is relevant to every nation and era – another proof that the Quran is truly the Word of God. Intending for this Book to remain a source of guidance, inspiration, wisdom and healing for all of humanity, God designed its message to transcend the bounds of time.

    The Quran’s divine message applies to all aspects of life and rises above the superficial differences among humans. Its teachings guide the spiritual, social and intellectual needs of humanity. It encourages us to remember God often, to humble ourselves before Him, to fulfill our promises, to work together as a community and to remain patient and perseverant in times of hardship. Quranic stories teach us the importance of placing our trust in God, speaking the truth in the face of injustice and dealing with fellow humans with mercy.

    In a world starved of love and compassion, the Quran’s universal message provides the solution to the collective despair of the human condition. We invite you to open it and receive the great benefit this book has to offer.

    This is a blessed Book which We sent down to you, for people to ponder over its message, and for those with understanding to be reminded. (Quran, 38:29)

     
  24. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Look, Asif, as far as I’m concerned, I’ve sufficiently PROVED that there was not even the remotest possibility that “God” actually interacted with Mohammed in the creation of the Quran. Mohammed made up the Quran on his own (assuming Mohammed existed).

    I am happy for you to continue believing whatever you wish. I will firmly defend your right to religious freedom.

    Only thing, your assertions to the effect that God interacted with Mohammed will not persuade me. Why don’t you just keep believing in the Quran without expecting others to also believe it?

     
  25. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Asif, by all means take the message (philosophy) from the Quran. It is a great book of mankind and like anything that lives so long, it surely has some value. All religious books have things of value in them.

    It is, however, not a holy book. Just a book of great significance.

     
  26. asif

    dear i am not forcing you to believe it but making some points where you make this subjec that it quran is man made and not correct. you started all this if your blog site is political why you are including religion into it kindly stop using religion and come to the topic of politics and be happy as long as you will talk about religion people will counter your thinking and thoughts so keep religion and politics seprate dont involve.people like you do exist during the time of Prophet Muhammed who wont beleive in quran and think it is 100 percent man made.
    read below verse from quran it is a challenge from allah to mankind to produce ayaat of its like.

    You beleive or not i dont care but pray for you someday you will think and ponder and say yes quran is 100 percent correct and is from God.

    Take Care Enjoy Nice Day.

    The Quran is not only unique in the way in which it presents its subject matter, but it is also unique in that it is a miracle itself. By the term “miracle,” we mean the performance of a supernatural or extraordinary event which cannot be duplicated by humans. It has been documented that Prophet Muhammad (S), challenged the Arabs to produce a literary work of a similar caliber as the Quran, but they were unable to do so in spite of their well-known eloquence and literary powers. The challenge to reproduce the Quran was presented to the Arabs and mankind in three stages:

    “Say(Muhammad peace be upon him): ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.’” (Quran 17:88)

    “Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ‘Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.” (Quran 11:13)

    “And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant (Muhammad peace be upon him), bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.” (Quran 2:23)

     
  27. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    1) “if your blog site is political why you are including religion into it”

    Two points. This is my web log – a diary of thoughts. Everything I believe in or think about is discussed here. Who gave you the idea that this is a political blog?
    Second, religion is totally political. That’s why it is a serious problem to humanity.

    2) On other points, you are offering me belief. I’m offering facts. Facts win over belief anytime. Hands down.

     
  28. Danilo

    Dear Sanjeev, you refer to science with the same absolutism as others refer to Q’uran, or to the Bible…even science is based on conventions and being so it is man-created too and devoided of an absolute objectivity…for instance: the mind as an epiphenomenon of the brain is a theory never proven, but based on a materialistic approach according to nothing can exist but matter…also scientists are often unconsciously biased by personal opinions and limited views…

    This of course doesn’t make literally true what is written in the Q’uran and in the other “holy” scriptures, but points out the existence of a realm beyond conventions, which is that “ultimate truth” the Spiritual traditions look for. Tthis truth cannot be found in any book, but only within oneself…these books can be just useful guidelines, like the famous finger pointing the Moon…

    In the end men are never deluded by religions, they are always deluded by themselves…

     
  29. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    I’m not even referring to “science” (since that is too hard for religious bigots to understand). I’m saying that these religious books are man made. And I’m basing it on a simple assertion that has NOTHING to do with science in the real sense.

    I’m saying that if a religious book has even ONE factual error, it is GUARANTEED to be man made. That’s because God is not ignorant. God does not dictate factual mistakes. This perfection of God is based on the claims of the religious books themselves (that God is omnipotent).

    Either that, or God must be an ignoramus.

    I’d rather pick the simpler answer: that these books are man made.

    There is plenty of other logic/ experience to confirm this very straight-forward finding.

    Note once again, this is NOT a denial of God (although the probability of God’s existence is rather small). This is to deny the “holiness” of religious books.

     
  30. IdPnSD

    Math and Physics are completely false. Take for example, Newton’s First Law – an object will continue in motion in a straight line with a constant velocity. I am sure you have never seen such an object on earth or in space. Thus Newton is wrong. Yet, this law appeared in thousands of peer reviewed journals, and physics textbooks during the last 50-60 years. The same can be said about quantum mechanics and relativity theory. So do not trust peer reviewed journals. There is no peer review at all for any journal. Take a look at https://theoryofsouls.wordpress.com/ for more details, examples, and proofs. The book is supported by so called peer reviewed, professional conference and journal articles.

    Vedas are not manmade. The foundation of Vedas is yoga, yogic meditation, and yogic power. By yogic meditation you can acquire divine vision. A high level yogi with divine vision will be able to see Vedas embedded in nature, even now. Vedas describe the laws of nature – soul theory, yoga, reincarnation, destiny, eternal recurrence, law of conservation, birth maturity death process, etc. These laws are true for the entire universe and for all times past, present, and future. There is no God in Vedas. Take a look at the above book for proofs and examples. There was a time when Vedas were known all over the world. Its influences can be found in all major religions. Bible describes all of the above laws. Judaism describes many advanced high level yogic powers. We see many high level yogis all over the world even in modern times.

    Ayn Rand said – “Truth is not for all men, but only for those who seek it.” There is no truth in mainstream.

     
  31. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    I normally discard such junk but allowed this junk through as an illustration of the nonsense people who have never learnt the basics of critical thinking or scientific method can cook up inside their heads.

     
  32. IdPnSD

    For Sanjeev Sabhlok,

    “… but allowed this junk through as an illustration of the nonsense…” I assume your response is for IdPnSD. I thank you for not deleting my comment. Now, I will appreciate, if you point out at least one junk from my comments and show that it is a nonsense.

     
  33. Milind

    stumbled across this post and was unable to keep myself away.
    Before I respond, I will admit that I’m a believer & devout Hindu.. Having said that, I feel both Ms. Sangeeta and Mr. Sabhlok are getting into futile arguments since the truth usually is multi-faceted & complex especially when, we talk about spirituality. BTW I haven’t read much of the Vedas as such.
    For e.g. The statement Vedas emanated from God can be true – since a high level of spiritual awakening, heightened creativity would be needed to ‘download’ these from the ‘source’. this holds true for other areas – e.g. great lyrics, compositions, pieces of art, sport, where the spirit does things beyond the realm of normal humans.
    On the other hand as Mr. Sabhlok says, these are man-made, but then that means (probably) understating these. Another definition of man-made can be when the action does not summon the internal spiritual resources, passion etc.. E.g. difference between a great piece of art and a signboard painter… There’s a high likelihood that such ‘signboard’ style verses have been plugged into the holy books (mostly Koran, also Vedas) by narrow-minded clergy to justify their hold on the masses.
    Anyway…for me, it doesn’t matter if these are man-made or given by God. Religion/Spirituality is (and should be) a matter of experience, hence I will follow it, since it works for me… And yes, I will trash those verses (e.g. promoting casteism) that run contrary to humanity and/or universal principles. Ultimately, that judgement signifies spiritual maturity to me, rather than going into circles trying to ‘rationalize’ the verses and make them ‘scientific’ in line with modernity.

     
  34. Aditya Sharma

    Great ideas Sir. I want to ask everyone, if God exists, why doesn’t he come down to save the women from getting raped that too for Jillions of women getting raped everyday on this world? Why doesn’t he come down and save innocent people from terrorism? You all say God is examining us, u Jokers, won’t the examiner(God) do any damn thing when students(Boys) rape girls? Won’t he do anything if students fight with each other? Won’t he do anything if they started people looting? Won’t he do anything if they spread terrorism and kill jillions? Why doesn’t God come and stop people who kill girl baby in the womb? Right these things are small things that are happening in the world! My foot! God is the problem of everything. People are ignorant even after studying science and medical, they have guts to say that God exists because of books. People won’t let us live up till when there is a God. BAN GOD NOW! Please Ban God! People can’t live when some different God believers kill other God believers and will happen throughout the end! Let people live.

     
  35. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    The question of “personal” religious God – who takes an active interest in human affairs – is impossible to defend. However, the question of a philosophical god can’t be rid of. Moreover, people are free to think anything they like so long as they don’t harm others.

    In brief, while agreeing with you on most of what you write, it is not practical nor possible to ban religion/ god. However, it is almost certain that over time all religion will die a natural death.

     
  36. chanda

    well if you are judging all holy book on the basis of mistakes then it not a good idea because we don’t have all Vedas & Quran & Bible in their purest forms as because a lot of years are passed since its all has been made

    and i m afraid that people added many things in all of the holy books so mistakes are normal

    and second thing people believe all this because science don’t has all the answers …….

    I really believe in Hinduism because it has lot of science read this

    What are some similar beliefs ofHinduismandscience? – Quora
    and many other things tooo like
    in hanuman chalisa
    … According to Modren Astronomy and Science, we know that the earth’s orbit around the sun is not a circle and isslightly elliptical. Therefore, the distancebetween the earth and the sun variesthroughout the year.At its nearest point on the ellipse that is the earth’s orbit around the sun, the earth is 91,445,000 miles (147,166,462 kms) from the sun. This pointin the earth’s orbit is known as Periapsis (perihelion) and it occurs around January

    & there is 10 times more logical & scientific things then what Quran & bible has or even more then this

    and if someone thinks that I’m wrong go and search Google Hinduism & science and Islam & science compare both of them and then say

    and Hinduism gives you many more then just science

    but still I think that spirituality is the best way to reach god

    sorry if I did any mistake in English

     
  37. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    “we don’t have all Vedas & Quran & Bible in their purest forms”

    We don’t need anything as outdated and inaccurate as these religious books. Science keeps updating and moving forward. Religion doesn’t.

    I don’t need to read false inaccurate books to understand the world. So should you give up wasting time on such documents and start understanding science and CREATING NEW SCIENCE. Move forward, not backward. You are a human, not a slave.

     
  38. Bhushan Dongol

    vedas are fully scientific. modern day scientists like Darwin and Einstein stole from the vedas. Evolution was ripped off of Dashavatar in vishnupuran. The distance from earth to sun was written in Hanuman chalisa. String theory came from vedas. speed of light too.

    so the vedas are in no way false.

     
  39. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Speculation is not the same as scientific knowledge. Yes, there was a decent knowledge of some aspects of maths and science in ancient India. But 99.99 per cent was speculation.

    Overall, the Vedas are FALSE.

    QED

     
  40. m.javed ayub

    Sanjeev sabhlok..if you say Quran was writen by a man..then 1400 years ago who had the capability to discover the human embryonic development?these are things which scientists are discovering now in the 20-21st century.but its mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago where there were no machines and no technological development..so Quran is book from Gos.so many scientists are becoming muslims due to this fact …just answer me which man could discover embryonic development without any technology 1400 years ago?all the other books have changed over time like there are many versions of bible and vedas but Go to London or america or india or south africa,there is only one version of Quran.This is my challenge.before you speak take a Quran and read its meaning,you may be enlightened because it is a fool who speaks without knowing the truth

     
  41. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Please tell me the exact words that the Quran says about embroyonic development.

     
  42. m.javed ayub

    It seems you dont read the Quran and its meaning and then you just say all religious books are man made.isnt it wise to read and then speak against something rather than claiming’all books are man made’if you want exact words send me your email because the verse is long since each stage is explained with so much accuracy till many biological scientists are accepting islam ..and if you think i am lying you can refer to youtube to see how many scientists have converted to islam after doing research on embryology and getting same result which was written in Quran 1400 years back.Themselves they said muhamed or no other man could do any such accurate research 1400 years ago due to poor technology so they have belived that Quran is divine mesage..send me your email.atleast its easier for me to send you images

     
  43. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    My email is widely available on this blog – but I’m providing it to you anyway: sabhlok@gmail.com. I’d like to see this verse for myself before any further conversation.

     
  44. Raj

    What about beheadings and child marriages, and stoning women dead and all the other Truths advocated in it? May I kindly ask you to leave this country? You’re a serious danger and threat to us if you’re going to take that book seriously.

     
  45. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Raj, I definitely do not support such statements about Muslims. They are long standing citizens of India and deserve the right to their belief, no matter how much you or I may disagree with it.

    I’m engaging in a discussion, let us discuss, not start attacking anyone’s citizenship rights.

     
  46. Raj

    Cool. Um Sanjeev, I replied to your email, was just wondering if you’ve checked it yet. Please tell me so if you’re busy cuz I’ve got a bit more stuff on my mind. I’ve made a meetup group called ‘Mumbai Libertarians’ and though it may not be used. I’ve been thinking of calling for meetups in various cities now for which the State coordinator could help out. It’d be free, cheap and might help bring out freedom-lovers in each city and actually physically interact with the SBP state head, and hopefully, create some momentum and planning for street talks and distribution of fliers.

    Alternatively, I’ve been thinking of creating YouTube videos on economic freedom and other stuff and possibly link it to the party YouTube page, if it exists. All very preliminary but just letting my thoughts out.

    I could send you a more detailed email about what I’ve said here by Mon/Tue in case you’d be freer then.

    Thanks! (This needn’t be published!)

     
  47. m.javed ayub

    Not child marriages.those who have reached puberty.You see raj the problem with you is you belive what people say or what muslims do.many muslims dont follow The Quran but do what they feel is right..like terrorists they are just muslims by name.read the Quran with meaning and you will know islam is perfect not muslim.we dont belive in stonning women i dont know where you get that from rather i say in vedas a widow is termed as ill luck and she is called sati.so which religion degrades a woman.in vedas there is racism whereby they are called untouchables .they cant read vedas or listen to it..while in Islam the quran says All are equal thats why in prayers the poor nd rich stand together.

     
  48. Joyson Fernandes

    Javed, the Qu’ran states that embryonic development begins as a BLOOD CLOT. This is absolute nonsense! Human life doesn’t begin as a blood clot.

    The so-called “scientific miracles” of the “Holy Qu’ran” is just a fraud perpetuated by these Salafi preachers like Zakir Naik, Maurice Bucaille (the Saudi king’s physician), etc. They tell great lies and ignorant gullible Muslims fall for them hook, line, and sinker, because they do not know science and how to critically examine beliefs. It is a lie that so many biologists are converting to Islam.

     
  49. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    On my blog there is no way to communicate except to publish. By all means send me any thoughts. I’ve got a tiny bit of time to read things (although heavily backlogged).

     
  50. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Had a minute to search google. Like all other things, looks like there is a huge literature on this issue, e.g. (Note that I’ve not had time to read these but my position is 100 per cent clear – the Quran is 100 per cent man-made, so there is ZERO prospect of anything remarkable being found in this document. It is just such a waste of time trying to find any science in these ancient ramblings of hallucinating men).

    https://maria911.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/192/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X9VZZv9O8A
    https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/11/23/islamic-embryology-overblown-balderdash/
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/embryo.html

     
  51. m.javed ayub

    Joyson fernandes..no the quran dznt say that embryonic development beginst from blood clot..it begins from the fusion of male cell and female cellYou can check in the internet regarding the verse.i guess you read read the wrong translation…and sanjeev if you dont have time to read the truth then dont keep blabbering because a wise men studys the proofs and then comments.comenting without studying is foolishnes

     
  52. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Javed, I have read the Quran extensively and its claims are ENTIRELY false and man-made. In this particular case I’m giving you the opportunity to change my mind, but you are not helping me out.

    Since you know the proper verse and its translation, do provide it to me. EXACT words. Not your paraphrase. You haven’t even provided me with the verse number yet.

    And please ignore Joyson and Raj. No need to start parallel debates. Just debate with me. Thanks!

     
  53. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Javed, this is to acknowledge receipt via email of two links (you could have sent them as comment, as well):

    1) https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_articles/single/en_The_Quran_on_Human_Embryonic_Development.pdf
    2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Dllu42eEA

    The Quranic text cited is this: “We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then
    We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)…” (Quran 23:12-14)

    No further discussion is needed, Javed. If this is all that “God” knows, he is a total fool.

    Clearly God should know at least about DNA, about cells, about mitosis, about morula, about blastocyst, and so on. There needs to also be a detailed explanation why the embryo mimics all stages of reptilian and mammalian evolution.

    I’m afraid the “god” of the Quran is a blithering idiot.

    Even at age 12 I knew FAR MORE – indeed, thousands of times more – about human biology and reproduction than this ridiculous verse purports to know.

    If a “God” knows LESS than a 12 year old human, he is no “God”.

    Indeed, a key test of God should be this: Does the fellow know anything at all?

    There is no scripture that knows even 1 trillionth of what humans know today. And 100 per cent of the claims made in these scriptures are blatant false.

    Look, Javed, I was a National Science Talent Scholar in India with a specialisation in biology and a project based on atomic physics. I’ve spent four further decades studying science.

    I’m afraid I can distinguish truth from falsehoods in an instant.

    I’m not sure what your educational background and training is, but no religious scripture can deceive me.

    Now, I know you will not be persuaded by this, and you may feel bad that I’m rejecting your blind faith outright. You may even say bad things about me.

    But, Javed, life is too short for me to speak lies. Let any real “God” present himself/herself before me and then I’ll discuss further. No need to waste my time further with the bogus nonsense found in “scriptures”.

     
  54. Joyson Fernandes

    I’ll further add. People back then were no stranger to miscarriages. These used to be common. Muhammad’s wives themselves had many miscarriages. So he must have surely seen what unborn foetuses look like.

     
  55. m.javed ayub

    Yea like as if in a foetus you can see sperm and ovum fusing @joyson..
    And mr sabhlok-1400 years ago people dint know about sperm even so DNA is something far away..if you teach a class 1 pupil will you start telling him about eyes ears nose or DNA Morula blastula..be practical…its coward and fools who cant argue well so they use abuses…and i dont want to argue further but i will really be pleased to hear your voice In Hell when you will be shouting while i am in paradise.Then We Will talk …And there you can abuse God and ask him your stupid ques

     
  56. m.javed ayub

    Yea like as if in a foetus you can see sperm and ovum fusing @joyson..
    And mr sabhlok-1400 years ago people dint know about sperm even so DNA is something far away..if you teach a class 1 pupil will you start telling him about eyes ears nose or DNA Morula blastula..If your teacher teaches you 1+1 does it mean she only knows that..does it mean she doesnt know 4+2…its coward and fools who cant argue well so they use abuses stop abusing God..He created you ..You did not exist naturally or you did not create yourself…in future we may discover more than morula and blastula so now if God had said about morula it still could be outdated in future ..but He mentioned the basic things..

     
  57. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    “mr sabhlok-1400 years ago people dint know about sperm even so DNA is something far away.”

    You’ve just PROVED the point – that this is a man-made document, because even “God” didn’t know about DNA then. Sad “God”. An ignorant God. And since a genuine God can’t be a fool (PLUS charlatan, like Mohammed was), therefore this verse is NOT “dictated” by God. Q.E.D.

     
  58. m.javed ayub

    So if God dint say about DNA it mean he didnt know..so if your teacher teaches you about multiplication it means she only knows multiplication and not square nd square roots..so you tell me 1400 years ago who could talk about sperms when even microscope was not discovered??????and if you think you know more than The God i belive tell me what will be discovered 1400 years from now in scientific field???Quran is mainly a religious book not a science text book but atleast God has mentioned the basic things which were new during that time …the quran talks about soo many scientific facts..80%have been discovered true the rest 20%is still not known whether true or false despite all this technology..but the day the scientists say they have discovered 20%remaining is untrue ,i will belive Quran is man-made …like scientists used to deny ants talk to each other which was written in Quran but recently they discovered its true!!!!you tell me who 1400 years could say all this things where there were no microscope or machines???

     
  59. Joyson Fernandes

    @ Javed: (facepalm!)

    Dear simple-minded ignorant Muslim, that verse states that human life began from an extract of clay then transformed into sperm and then became a leech-like blood clot. Which as I said earlier, is utter nonsense!

    Only science illiterate Muslims who lack the ability think critically and who like fools gullibly swallow every lie the Muslim preachers tell them, would fall for this bullshit.

    Also people 1400 years were aware about sperms being responsible for procreation. In fact, the knowledge that procreation involves the emission of sperms has been well known from the earliest days of civilization.

    In Genesis 38:9 the Bible tells us that Onan “spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother”.

    So that Quranic verse is no more than a direct observation as to what is released during the act of sexual intercourse, which was a common fact thousands of years from Muhammad.

    We don’t need to rely upon the Qu’ran to inform us of this fact.

    A word of advice! Don’t be a naive gullible sheep. There is no excuse for such gross ignorance in this day and age, unless you happen to be illiterate and lack education. This is the internet age for crying out loud. Don’t be an intellectually lazy fool.

    Learn to do some basic research and critically examine your beliefs, instead of blabbering about the so-called “scientific miracles” of the “Holy Qu’ran”.

     
  60. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    “Quran is mainly a religious book not a science text book but at least God has mentioned the basic things which were new during that time …the quran talks about soo many scientific facts..80%have been discovered true the rest 20%is still not known whether true or false despite all this technology”.

    The verse you quoted was absolutely pointless and not scientific or factual in any way. It doesn’t display even the remotest sense.

    “We created man from an extract of clay” is the PUREST form of nonsense. Humans are NOT made out of clay. The rest of the nonsense is not worth wasting time on. In any event, I am 100 per cent clear that the Quran is the imagination of Mohammed, and no “god” exists IN THE FORM OR SHAPE written in the Quran – or ANY other “religious” book.

    The fertile imagination of a hallucinatory man does not make something true or scientific.

    Re: “the rest 20%is still not known whether true or false” – by all means list to me the remarkably “advanced” scientific verses which you are unsure of whether these are true or false.

     
  61. Joyson Fernandes

    @ Javed: You are making silly assumptions of what people knew and didn’t know, when you have no idea.

    Every science fact that’s mentioned in the Qu’ran was common knowledge back then, because the Qu’ran is a man-made book. People in fact were aware of the earth being round as recently as the first century AD. Suppose the Qu’ran were to mention this, it wouldn’t be a big deal. People weren’t absolute ignoramuses back then.

    There are plenty of online articles debunking the claims of Muslim propagandists regarding the so-called “scientific miracles”.

    You are supposedly an “educated” man. So enlighten yourself by conducting your own research, instead of making a fool out of yourself arguing absurdities. There is no excuse for such gross ignorance in this day and age.

     
  62. m.javed ayub

    People knew the earth was round?not everyone (till vascodagama traveled round the earth and found out he reached the same place as he had started and that was like 300 yearz back not 1400)…and this is a different scientific fact…did people know what was inside semen?did people know how the embryo developes??stop assuming..you say every scientific fact is a common knowledge maybe in todays time not 1400 years ago..infact early scientists thought that the sperm developes into a zygote and embryo..it was later when they discovered that the sperm fuses with ovum then forms zygote!!!even talking of ants was discovered recently not long time back!!

     
  63. m.javed ayub

    Oh please sabhlok you are an illiterate..clay meaning natural organic substances like minerals and water..even science accepts on that…you dont even know what science says ..u dont even know about what Quran says..all you can do is just claim that it is man made!illiterate guy..if quran is man made produce a similar book as Quran ..u cant even produce one verse then u claim on others..imagination of mohamed?really so 1400 years ago he just imagined that semen contains sperms and it turned out to be true!he just imagined clot of blood and it turned out to be true!so now you imagine some scientific things and let them turn out to be true..GO READ YOUR SCIENCE AND KNOW ALL LIVING CREATURES ARE MADE INITIALLY OF ORGANIC SUBSTANCES.U DONT EVEN KNOW SCIENCE AND YET YOU SAY THE SCIENCE IN QURAN IS SHALLOW.YOU ARE LIKE A BLIND MAN WHO IS CONDEMING OTHER PEOPLES EYES.you belive in science yet you dont know it!!illiterate

     
  64. m.javed ayub

    Sabhlok i am sending you an email which says scientists claim that organisms are initially made from clay cz it allows formation of DNA.. .clay provides suitable condition for DNA formation.understand mr illiterate

     
  65. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Kindly don’t send me emails. Any “scientist” who claims HUMAN embryo starts from clay is a fraudster.

    Re: origin of life, it too did not start from clay. The details need to be provided.

    Anyway, I’m going to now disconnect you from this blog since you are wasting my time on proving the impossible. Kindly keep believing whatever you wish. Believing in falsehoods doesn’t make them true.

     
  66. rahul pandey

    • hi,

    absolutely, every religious texts are manmade (a proper noun), but by intellectuals what is referred to as aporushya(not a common man), this is possible ! – i mean how many do we have in written records who have used 4% of their brain, does that means we should start worshiping them? but what if we do- involves the concept of worshiping, if worshiping is praising or thanks giving- then why not. AT times we thanked Edison for electricity, Newton for gravity, Einstein for relativity – in a very similar fashion we thank RAMA for being an example for explicit personality and other deities for their respective trade.

    • CONCEPT OF GOD

    To be very true at this point the religion card comes to play, this involves comparison of religion. I am not zakir naik to point out mistakes in Hinduism or Christianity to jump to a conclusion. On the basis of gita, vedas and modern science, I will try to prove some facts and derive conclusions.
    What is god

    Omnipotent, omnipresent, inside, outside, everything is god -god is everything according to gita or vedas, same as the concept of energy.
    And in actual if there exist a god who created this universe burning negligible calories, must have either created or converted the required energy. And the statement at first fails to prove conservation law and at another part clears that energy resources were readily available for god to create this world- this again contradicts that god created everything.

    What if energy is modern god or eshwer

    It is not like being a hindu I am biased with other religious scripts, but vedas and gita synchronizes in almost every aspect of ancient and modern world. As a matter of fact vedas or gita never claimed to be only for hindus or indus valley people but instead for the whole of mankind, thus hindus have no right to claim them religious. But as individual or non-follower of any other religion, the remaining can be called vedic/sanatan/hindu in particular.

    In short vedas or gita are collection of concept, life, belief, technology of the vedic period, it was never meant to be followed but to be compared, studied and used.
    I would like to put fourth some significant points from geeta and vedas which are upto the fact with present world.
    1) The shape of god is never mentioned
    2) Human formation or cell formation is never mentioned but embryology is in detail and up to the mark.
    3) Supports human evolution from amoeba to its linkage with every other species on earth
    4) Multi-dimensional state or energy transition
    5) Aliens

    Etc , these all points were just to prove that there had been a generation gap between then and now, there was technology but then it wouldn’t have been called TECHNOLOGY as they are man made.
    Hope u liked it, ignore mistakes
    Thank you.

     

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