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Five methods to end the oppressiveness of the caste system.

I've just tweeted five examples of possible ways by which the oppressiveness of caste can be brought to an end. Two of these I'd already mentioned earlier (in BFN). The fifth method involves abandoning caste entirely. The first two are new suggestions.

I welcome other alternative suggestions.

It is my view that the Hindu is NOT going to give up caste that easily. When something has been drilled into one's head for 3000 years, it takes some time to get rid of it.

It is desirable, therefore, to operationalise the PRETEND/BOGUS (FALSE!!!!) claims of Arya Samaj and others who claim that caste is not hereditary by challenging them to CREATE A PROCESS by which people's caste can be OFFICIALLY changed.

Stop fooling me and others with a fake view that caste is not hereditary. I challenge you to build a system to allocate caste AFTER birth. Then and only then will your fake claims become real. Else I treat them as pure rubbish. Bogus and intended to cheat.

Someone told me that he thought that Dr BR Ambedkar was actually a Brahmin. Sorry, but no one told him that!

So why not create a system WITHIN THE RELIGION to ensure that caste is not determined at birth but at age 18 (say).

I recommend method No. 2 as the most practical method to allocate caste. I'm happy to help create a system by which such an exam can be administered to all the billion Hindus.

Why not method no. 5 (total elimination)? Because that's a delusion. It is never going to happen. After method #2 is implemented for 200 years people will realise this whole thing is sheer red tape and will therefore stop wasting time on the "exam" – and stop bothering about caste.

Note that method #2 means that the lastname of each Hindu will NECESSARILY CHANGE at age 18 after the exam. And a key consequence is that there could be members from all four castes within the same family.

METHODS

1. One method to eliminate the oppressiveness of caste would be to give everyone the choice to choose their caste.

2. A second method to end the oppressiveness of caste would be to establish an "exam" at age 18 when caste is determined.

3. A third method (I've already mentioned in BFN) is for all Brahmins to lose caste – along with others.

4. A fourth method (again, mentioned in BFN) is for ALL lower castes to become Brahmins.

5. Yet another method – but the least likely to succeed – is for all Hindus to renounce caste.

COMMENTS ON FACEBOOK

RM: As can be witnessed in various developed (wealthy) countries, if there is economic prosperity, people will focus less on race and caste. It will dissolve on its own.

Sanjeev Sabhlok: This is incorrect. Caste is not going to disappear with prosperity. The rich people of India STILL strongly believe in caste.

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RS: Nice, but unfortunately we don't have any practical solution .
Sanjeev Sabhlok There is. If caste is not abolished, ALL kinds of people will continue to leave Hinduism. Not just the Dalits and tribals but people like me. It is NOT my job to be part of a religion that oppresses 40 per cent of Indians.

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AR Nothing is going to work,unless we kill the sanctity of the religious maths. That is at the core of caste system- Ambedkar did admit that such a reform is not at all possible in Hinduism – to kill the sanctity of maths. And the issue is further complicated with the presence of reservation system. The hitherto lower/backward caste people are willing to be attached to their backward tag as caste has become the basis of getting the comfort. The state is in confused state. But these socio-political issues can be solved only when the religious issues are addressed, which doesn't seem to be a reality anywhere soon.

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YS Only free markets will eliminate caste. I mean make caste irrelevant. I mean you can't remove it. There is nothing wrong in caste. All kinship groups can prosper equally and I see nothing wrong in belonging to a kinship group. As a state or the rule of law should not be different for different groups/religions/castes but people are entitled to belong to a certain group if they wish to – essence of property rights….Everywhere there are castes – even in America, even among other religions in India or elsewhere is different forms.

AR free market is not a panacea for social evils- the free market can hardly address the religious issues from where this caste system takes its root.

Sanjeev Sabhlok YS, both your arguments are incorrect. First, there is NO evidence that becoming wealthier or more educated reduces caste. Indians are hugely wealthy in USA but caste based marriage advertisements continue as usual. Caste, you are forgetting, is BY BIRTH. It has nothing to do with post-birth work/merit. Second, you are spouting the fake arguments that all "Hindus" keep giving – that there is caste in other parts of the world. That is entirely wrong. Caste is based on transmigration of the soul, and no other religion believes in transmigration. Please understand your own religion properly and you'll realise it has some extremely evil consequences. Re: what I should focus on, kindly leave that decision to me. I see caste as cutting India's GDP and future potential by about 80 per cent. It has lowered the IQ of 80 per cent of India's population. The average Indian's IQ is close to that of a "moron" (in old  IQ lingo). Morons can't become wealthy even if you free the markets. Changing Hinduism is getting more and more urgent.

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RS These ideas are sounds good but sadly, all these five will fail in the practical world. Because today caste is not a big issue for our current generation most of my friends have done love marriage or you can say inter caste marriages, even our families does not have any problem because they are well educated. Main problem in India is reservation which is caste base nobody wants to leave their caste, no body wants to become Brahmin because they won't get reservation, if we totally abolish the caste system then no body will be able to get reservation so its irrelevant. The best thing is education and willingness to leave the caste culture more and more inter cast inter religion marriages. I don't thing even one of the five ideas will work in our society.

Sanjeev Sabhlok RS you are mixing up India with yourself. Please go to villages and study caste. It is AS strong as ever before. And no, please don't blame the reservation system for caste. Yes, it must go, but I would like the caste system to go first.

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SavitriEra Party suggested that Sri Aurobindo Ghosh's method be used to eliminate caste. On inquiring, it was found to be the following: "Caste is imbibed from family & culture in the mind. By education & appropriate logic, the mind can be changed in a progressive way. First step is to rid individuals from the Caste mentality. It can spread further."

This "solution" is not helpful at all.

Sanjeev Sabhlok

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21 thoughts on “Five methods to end the oppressiveness of the caste system.
  1. cutie

    All stupid people living in India that’s why this country cant be develop anymore as the other countries are well developed. Bcoz indian people live in caste-ism and egoist by nature especially who belong to upper class which is created by themselves not created by God.God only created human being..He didnt put any human in high and low category..This cheap things only created by some bastard itself who live in India..and they be proud by called themselves hindu..I am also hindu but i wanna spit on that every person who proudly said they are hindu but their thinking is so narrow minded..now its depend on human what they want to become Devil or Angel..Nobody is lower and higher by caste or religion..they become high and low by their behavior..Reservation should be stop itself when you all leave this stupid casteism..Say no no caste and community..All are hindu who live in hindustaan understood idiot people..

     
  2. cutie

    Hindu (body) four community: brahmin (head) kshatriya (arm) vaishya (belly) shudra (feet) All these four communit called as hindu. We all are parts of one body. Without each part our body is not complete. If we lost one part of our body then we become handicap. The human body is the entire structure of a human being. Human Body is considered so loving that God even wants to have it. Spiritual Yogis have found that after going through the 84 millions species this souls get the most dignified human body. So it is the last step to explore the God or to get the view of almighty father god. We know that the soul never dies it takes birth again and again just like as we take new clothes to wear the soul as it takes new body and it is an infinite process. But the body what we get in next birth depend on our karma that thas been cited in Gita by Lord Krishna to Arjuna. We all here to perform our duties. Our action makes our destiny and nothing else. The result is in the hand of supreme power. Karma is the seed of plant and if the seed is genuine it must be fruitful.

     
  3. cutie

    Whenever someone’s ask you about your caste then your answer should be to them is:
    I am a Brahmin in knowledge
    I am kshatriya in valor
    I am vaishya in business
    I m shudra in service
    In the end I am just sanatam dharmi hindu and nothing else..Then say you proud to be a hindu..

     
  4. Avadh

    When our GODs do not have caste then why do we have.
    In my point of view the best way to remove the casteism is to replace the caste by our religion(HINDU).
    Exp. ABC Hindu, XYZ Hindu etc. in this manner there will be no casteism and hindu will be united once again.

     
  5. cutie

    yes, hindu religion should be ashamed of themselves to be fanatic hindu..only hindu religin made the other people life like hell ..just show to their small n cheap thinking by divided the hindu religion into four caste..there weere no need to divided hindu religion into caste..if fanatic hindu dont do this stupidity n show their madness then i m sure nobody would ever faced reservation..n tell me if u said hindu religion has for category such as: brahmin hindu,khastriya hindu, vaishya hindu, shudra hindu….here u all FANATIC hindu ( ufffff hum keh sakte hai KATTAR hindu or choti soch) do biggest mistake by saying that shudra r belong low caste .they r not the part of hindu religion.they r other..then why u said hindu religion divided int o four caste..just say hindu religion divide into three category okh..according to me i dont judge people by their caste or subcaste n never put them into high n low rank okh…who i m to put them into high n low rank n who the hell are you fanatic hindu..

    someone said change yourself world will change automatically ..

    Being human … is being someone perfect … bcoz we r God’s creations

    Give your to others

    Help others to help yourself

    Love others to love yourself …

    Remember… you are a human -God’s crearion, you must be perfect

     
  6. saripalli ammulya

    Remove the centuries old caste system which makes an upper caste people as privileged by birth in indian society…and all benefits (financial,social) can be enjoyed by them by there mere caste…First remove the attitude and thinking from the minds of millions of people who live with caste evil in there day-to-day life passed from generations to generations seeded and nurtured by thier faith …then talk about caste reservation which is the only saviour left for poor untouchables for increasing their standards of life…

     
  7. NB

    Shri Sanjeev, This caste has become a HONEY POT,irrespective of caste & creed everybody is taking advantage in many forms, no explanation required, Rich,Middle class, Poor etc. It has become a BALL GAME. In my house our domestic help has converted to Christianity, I asked her ? she says i get respect now, as I am casteless for this she pays monthly Rs 800/- to the Christian Evangelist,SHE SAYS but my children names are all hindu gods name, to avail all concessions from Govt. There is a conspiracy in this. To eliminate this is going to be tough task. The super countries exactly want this ex what happened inSOUTH KOREA, to suit their their appetite for business & LUST.

     
  8. Abhay

    @ Sanjeev subhlok…I think we can only lower importance of caste system ,,there is no such way to remove it ,,it will only create kiosk .. For example to remove the gap between rich and poor all rich should donate their money to poor people,,wat do you think ??how many rich people going to do that .. And there is a very big point we are ignoring that caste is related to religion and as a secular and democratic nation,,, Gov. can’t force or impose such laws.
    Caste system in Hindu’s is not in its fair state because if we go to core of its origin during Rigvaidic period caste system was based on choice it wasn’t based on birth ,,we are following a deformed structure of caste system from post Rigvaidic period,where some corrupt or I can say greedy people who had social prestige made a law and add shudra and made it birth oriented,,so if we want to remove this malpractice we have to make our caste system free from birth orientation,,and this is not possible at all .
    So in my point of view there are some methods by which we can make this unfair caste system irrelevant
    1- removal of reservation system based on caste make it economy based reservation system which is possible by political will
    2- Gov. Should make some laws regarding inter caste marriage as a reform and should promote by giving some benefits,,
    3- Enhance the feeling of patriotism by 5 years compulsory army service for all like many of foreign countries.
    4-included religious leader to make initiative because caste as a matter of religious belief only they can easily spread this awareness that caste is just a surname not a certificate of supremacy or futility.They can easily aware mass that the core identity is their nationality.

    Malpractices can only remove by awareness we can’t force someone to leave their caste,,,,and with gradual development things are getting better but at very slow rate ,we should focus to enhance its speed and this malpractice will dissolve itself .

     
  9. Free Adviser.

    The best solution is to provide non- religion based uniform education to all with good etiquette in a closed environment like a residential school with very high degree of discipline like the Sainik schools to all children up to the age of 14. When the children pass out of such schools they will all have the same standards of thinking. I know of people from scheduled caste who passed ICWA in the top 10 ranks where reservation does not apply and of scheduled tribes who did not avail reservation. It is the environment we have to create. There are plenty of SC ST students who got seats through reservation did not complete their studies due to lack of additional coaching and there are plenty of poor FC students who couldn’t attend college due to lack of funds in spite of getting high marks. Next is to urbanize all. Villages are biggest dark spots for untouchability.

    We needn’t abolish caste and inter caste or inter racial marriages. It is against nature. When an African marries an European the child to be born has already lost the goodness of both the races.I know of a sharp German lady who married a sweet Sikh gentleman and their son does not have the qualities of both. He is now a new caste. That was how castes began. There is also untouchability among SC castes.

    If we cannot live together in harmony it is best suited to live alone as dependable alien communities like a community manufactures electric bulbs only and another community manufactures switches only and another wires and holders only which we can call theme based communities. Very funny!

     
  10. shekher

    India is facing new problems of religions also along caste systems.
    Suppose all political parties agrees to compulsory inter religious marriage and inter caste marriage, to bring harmony in the state and society, will it work?
    (2) countries with no or less impact of caste system have peace?or are problem free?
    (3) is peace prevalant in states with population following same religions?
    (4) is caste system genetically benificial?
    (5) % of politicians from street level onwards , who have either themselves or their nearest family members ( son,grandson) has married to intercaste or iinterreligios communities?if they are advocating against caste system.

     
  11. Srihari

    Caste system is social problem. This system does not go away as long as marriages happen within same castes. Government should encourage inter caste narriages by giving tax benefits to such couples.

    Also, when we are speaking with other people who are unknown, we should use respect (hindi – aap) irrespctive of the other people professions (auto driver, farmer or anyone). Tum (hindi) should be used only with family or familiar people. If you are saying tum, other should also use tum.

     
  12. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    “Government should encourage inter caste narriages by giving tax benefits to such couples”.

    That’s an inappropriate use of taxpayer money. The solution is to ensure equal opportunity for all through education (see Swarna Bharat Party manifesto for details).

     
  13. A V Raju

    Some how I managed to read the excerpts of this discussion just now , while it’s been on for quite sometime now. I agree with Sanjeev that the taxpayers money is to be accounted to the taxpayer, must be audited and should not be squandered for the gratification of a few . And , any such policies to side with preferential spending for one class of the society as against another must be appropriately challenged and stopped. For building roads, infrastructure, defence and the like is one matter. For people who are circumstantially underprivileged, the nation may evolve a policy and slowly roll it back , in a measured cadence, to ensure a parity is established but before a habit to expect it as a matter of right sets in . To spend on Health care for all citizens , and preferentially for under privileged, to ensure the fulfillment of a right to education, is again another veritable cause. Though it is a larger debate; but certainly as rational people , we could not possibly agree to squander or spend on the basis of beliefs of a religion, no matter what the recommendations are, for one simple reason that the foundation of religion itself is not verifiable and the ground for such spending itself is wobbly. I wish to add a simple thing that the largest recipient of funds from abroad , for all religions practiced in this country is , the VHP , and the like . Where is the money used? Probably to generate an element of hate amongst the masses. This is followed by other religions as well, though to a lesser extent. Given the time of say 10 to 15 years , after the incitement caused by the monetary enticement to cause disruption to the fabric of the society of the nation has occasioned in the form of broken homes, murdered people, disadvantaged citizens and above all the intellectual revolt caused in the minds of such people, redressing the issue becomes very costly. Much more costlier than one can ever audit and quantify. Cant that money be used to develop a better civil society ? to better a unbiased policing ? to elevate the standard and speed of our languishing judiciary? And,all in the name of religion , the followers of which will never prove the basis of that faith for their adherence , and which has been the singularly largest contributor of misery to mankind much bigger than any epidemic ever? In the absence of a reasonable proof for ones religious beliefs would not the society give the freedom to others, to differ , if not to totally reject the religious views being pushed down the gullet of others. I read something interesting , a few days back. Regarding the panchgavya. It is five elements of the holy cow – the urine, the dung, the ghee, the curd , the milk -perhaps. It was rated as the best food man can get, and must be made to eat in the country. The article writer found an ardent advocate in some guy who was an IIT&IIM graduate. And so goes the reasoning that it is recommended by the most brilliant!!!. Should not an IIT/IIM graduate put his brain and mind , if it were brilliant , to a more constructive use by weaning himself of these ill-gotten cliches that he is so assiduously pushing forth. Why recommend to eat what the cows body is rejecting ? It is afterall toxic, waste and unsavoury matter that is being rejected , which in all probability is useless to human body, if not outrightly dangerous to health. Why waste energies on trying to prove something as right ,that ,which is ludicrously wrong and spend taxpayers money to propagate wrong things under the garb of religious beliefs , and later spend further of taxpayers money in restoring the health of people who would come to suffer out of this. But we have been practicing things like this in the past and have come to a state where we have an option of either ,now standing united as one , rational, purpose oriented, nation or be left out as weak , impoverished, under-policed, judicially laggard nation. Let me elaborate further on this . Mr Gandhi , having spent a large part of his life in South-Africa , having been involved in their politics (considerably shady is what many South-Africans have to say) returned to India , plunged into the freedom struggle- plunged more in to the Dalit emancipation. He claimed that he was the true representative of the Dalits and when challenged by Dr Ambedkar , went on a fast-unto-death , vigorously supported by a band of socialists , including Nehru, who saw it as an attempt to setting the right religious order. Dr Ambedkar had to say this to Gandhi – , you have lived half your life out of the country , been born an a upper caste , now come to challenge the honesty of a person born as a dalit, suffered being a Dalit living in his own country, being pressurized by the band of self-seeking politicians to give up my struggle for emancipation of my community , and instead decide to hand it over to you or else face the ignominy of being the cause for risking your life. I for one think it is ridiculous , the arguments advanced by a very elite intellectual politicians to Dr Ambedkar. Anyway that is not the point . But the point is Gandhiji was not appreciated for what he did. He was not appreciated for aggregating the numbers for the Hindus , while the dalits would certainly have been lost for the Hindus. He fell to the bullets of another high caste man , who preferred another aggregation not the one Gandhiji practiced. So , i believe, caste does not go away simply by economic growth and increase in the financial stature of the individual. It is far to deeply drilled into the minds of the society for any cosmetic surgery to cure it in its entirety. On the other hand , i think the panacea really is to develop the thought and confidence that each one of us as an equal in the country of 1.3billion strong nation. Driven by the passion to excel as a nation and supported by strong ,effective monitoring against crime and should that occur, unfortunately, despite all measures , that there is a very effective judiciary that delivers timely and appropriate remedy. I would watch the TV telecast daily the advertisement of Amir Khan – ” Aathiti Deivo Bhave ” trying to draw to the fore the cultural roots of this country where our guest is like a God to us . Just after that I recall, there was rape of a German lady, another foreigner was raped and the case was sought to be silenced by a highly placed police official, another was a case of a gang rape by a group of students and on and on. The advertisement has no meaning unless it is effectively fixed into the frame of the society by the two measures suggested by SBP. Why only the foreigners , our own women and children need better protection and it is a right they must be given , even if tax-payers money is spent on that count. The Call of the SBP is insightful and serves that wonderful cause little heeded to by the rulers of this nation so far.
    My take-aways would be
    1)We are a mighty nation but ill governed so far and a good start can be by putting in place an effective monitoring of the society leaving space for the privacy of individuals/ families
    2)In the unfortunate case of ill- happenings , the effective monitoring being in place as above regardless, quick effective and sustained order be restored by effective judiciary.
    3)Having reassured the citizens of this vast nation that they are adequately taken care of, both lives and property the next step i believe would be to strip the society of bigotry and adherence to uncalled for socially detrimental practices ( religious or otherwise , harbouring incendiary ideas that cause a lot of harm in the long run to the society)
    4)The i believe comes the step to call to possess the right of education, right of good health etc.
    Thanks

     
  14. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    I’m afraid you’re making some illiberal prescriptions:

    a) “the largest recipient of funds from abroad , for all religions practiced in this country is , the VHP , and the like . Where is the money used? Cant that money be used to develop a better civil society ? to better a unbiased policing ? to elevate the standard and speed of our languishing judiciary?”

    No. It is not your business or my business (and definitely not of the government, which is our servant, not master) to force people to put their money on things you like. Let people be free to voluntarily put their money wherever they choose.

    b) “the next step i believe would be to strip the society of bigotry and adherence to uncalled for socially detrimental practices ( religious or otherwise”. There is no role for government (servant of the citizens) to tell their master how they should behave as a society. All social reform needs to occur through civil society, not government.

    (c) “he right of education, right of good health etc.”
    There is no such right. From where does any such right arise? Who gives anyone the power to take another’s money for his own use? All we can ensure is social insurance and elimination of extreme poverty. Plus equal opportunity for all. The only right is of freedom.

     
  15. A V Raju

    Yes Mr Sanjeev , you are right . If one can force someone else to act in a particular manner , there is no freedom. And also if Govt is a servant ,( minister actually means to serve and i understand this ), it cannot force its master the citizen to a particular act. But then what would be the role of police be , to prevent usurping of freedom of a citizen by somebody else. Is that right? Yes and you rightly pointed out right of freedom coupled with social insurance and elimination of “extreme” poverty should still be enough i think . What I really meant was that the ultimate national cost of undoing the purpose for which the initial funding gotten by the agencies was deployed, purportedly operating to uphold the cherished, religious values (serving only to disseminate hatred) , is prohibitively expensive in the long term to the nation. Thanks for bringing further clarity to my thought Mr Sanjeev. Thanks very much.

     
  16. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    ” But then what would be the role of police be , to prevent usurping of freedom of a citizen by somebody else. Is that right?” That’s right. No one is free to harm others.

     
  17. Srihari

    “That’s an inappropriate use of taxpayer money. The solution is to ensure equal opportunity for all through education (see Swarna Bharat Party manifesto for details).”

    I agree that equal opportunity for all through education is needed. But, how does it solve caste problem? Most educated people are thinking trough caste lens currently.

     
  18. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Good question.

    First you need to ask: why should your servant (the government) solve your social problems?

    Are you able to give me one reason why a servant should tell the master what to do?

     
  19. Amit

    Media is the best way. Daily local Newspaper, TV Channels, & Now Facebook, WhatsApp, Twitter. We can convince or tell people that there is nothing like a caste. Its only created by human being for that benefits along with the example. Even Well educated people also believe in caste. Don’t know what they are learning in school and colleges. In school and colleges only teach to do career and not telling how to live in society. If there are only 4 varnas than who created all other caste. I thought Brahmin created all these castes, because on basis of work they do they discriminate people. eg. in Mahars & Chamars are treated as low caste people because they use to do work with leather materials they don’t allow to enter in the temple.

     

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