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Response to a question on FB messages

Here's a question I got on FB. I have not been told who has said these things, but my comments are provided in blue, in italics. I've also encouraged the person who has sent me this info to use gmail, not FB message system. I don't use FB messaging most of the time.

संजीव सबलोक जी से हमने अपने प्रस्तावित ड्राफ्ट दिखाए और उनसे कहा कि आप अपने प्रस्तावों के लिए ड्राफ्ट दें | लेकिन उन्होंने कोई भी ड्राफ्ट पर टिपण्णी करने से मना कर दिया  [Sanjeev: This doesn't sound right. I don't recollect any time when I've refused to engage. Happy to be reminded.] और ना ही अपना कोई ड्राफ्ट दिया |  [Sanjeev: BFN chapter 6 is a blueprint for reform. Further policies can only be prepared after more detailed anlaysis.]

जब कि उनको अच्छी तरह से मालूम है कि सरकार ड्राफ्ट द्वारा चलती है , बिना ड्राफ्ट के कोई भी प्रस्ताव लागू नहीं हो सकता है |
 
उनके किताबों में लिखा है कि आम-नागरिक को `आजादी` (फ्रीडम) दिलवाएंगे | वे कहते हैं कि हम बहुत सारे पद समाप्त कर देंगे | लेकिन जब हमने पूछा कि आप कौन से पद रखेंगे, उसकी सूची दें, तो उन्होंने ऐसा करने से मना कर दिया | [Sanjeev: This is a serious misrepresentation. I don't go around denying an answer!] और ना ही पूरी प्रक्रिया बतातें हैं कि कैसे आम-नागरिकों को `आजादी` दिलवाएंगे | [Sanjeev: Chapter 6 of BFN is a very good starting point - in great detail about these matters.]
 
एफ.डी.आई. के वे लोग पुर्जूर समर्थक हैं | जब ज्यादा मैंने उनसे आग्रह किया उनके एक ग्रुप पर ड्राफ्ट देने के लिए, तो उन्होंने मुझे ब्लोक कर दिया [Sanjeev: I'm amazed. Once again I have no record of blocking discussion, but I do encourage civil debate, and ideally on this blog, so I have a google searchable public record of what I say/think.] | इसका मेरे पास रिकोर्ड भी है |
 
आपको विश्वास नहीं है, तो आप उनसे ड्राफ्ट देने के लिए पूछ सकते हैं | और वे क्या कहते हैं, सबको बताएं | यदि वे आम-नागरिकों के किसी अच्छे ड्राफ्ट का बढ़ावा करेंगे, तो मैं उनका समर्थन करने को तैयार हूँ, अन्यथा नहीं |
ड्राफ्ट में दो-तीन जरुरी बातें होती हैं – पहला कि किन प्रजा के नौकरों द्वारा प्रस्ताव लागू किया जायेगा, मतलब क्या कम कौन करेगा प्रस्ताव को लागू करने के लिए |
 
दूसरा, आम-नागिक के लिए क्या अधिकार / प्रक्रिया है जिसके द्वारा वे ये प्रजा के नौकरों को रोक सकते हैं, प्रक्रिया का दुरुपयोग करने से |
तीसरा, प्रक्रिया के लिए पैसा कहाँ से आएगा |

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Sanjeev Sabhlok

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21 thoughts on “Response to a question on FB messages
  1. Diksha Right To Recall

    is draft par apni raay deejie ,,,, iska aap samarthan karte hain ya virodh.

    ” सम्पूर्ण `जनता की आवाज़`पारदर्शी शिकायत/प्रस्ताव प्रणाली(सिस्टम) ड्राफ्ट

    [अधिकारी]
    प्रक्रिया

    1. [ कलेक्टर (और उसके क्लर्क) ]
    कोई भी नागरिक मतदाता यदि खुद हाजिर होकर यदि अपनी सूचना अधिकार का आवेदन अर्जी या भ्रष्टाचार के खिलाफ फरियाद या कोई भी हलफ़नामा / एफिडेविट कलेक्टर को देता है तो कोई भी दलील दिये बिना कलेक्टर ( या उसका क्लर्क ) उस एफिडेविट को प्रति पेज 20 रूपये का लेकर सीरियल नंबर दे कर, एफिडेविट को स्कैन करके पधानमंत्री के वेबसाइट पर रखेगा।

    2. [पटवारी (तलाटी ,लेखपाल) और उसका क्लर्क ]
    कोई भी नागरिक मतदाता यदि धारा-1 द्वारा दी गई अर्जी या फरियाद या हलफ़नामा / एफिडेविट पर आपनी हाँ या ना दर्ज कराने मतदाता कार्ड लेकर आये, 3 रुपये का शुल्क लेकर पटवारी नागरिक का मतदाता संख्या, नाम, फोटो, अंगुली के छाप, उसकी हाँ या ना को कंप्यूटर में दर्ज करेगा। नागरिक की हाँ या ना प्रधानमंत्री की वेब-साईट पर आएगी। गरीबी रेखा नीचे के नागरिको से शुल्क 1 रूपये का होगा । बाद में, सुरक्षित मेसेज सिस्टम आने पर ये शुल्क पांच पैसे हो जायेगा |

    सुरक्षा धारा (2A ; जिसके कारण ये प्रक्रिया पैसों से, गुंडों से या मीडिया द्वारा खरीदी नहीं जा सकती) – पटवारी नागरिक की हाँ या ना 3 रूपये देकर बदलेगा ।

    3. —————-
    ये कोई रेफेरेनडम/जनमत-संग्रह नहीं है | यह हाँ या ना अधिकारी, मंत्री, न्याधीश, सांसद, विधायक, आदि पर अनिवार्य नही होगी। लेकिन यदि भारत के 37 करोड़ नागरिक मतदाता कोई एक अर्जी, फरियाद पर हाँ दर्ज करे तो पधानमंत्री उस फरियाद, अर्जी पर ध्यान दे सकते हैं या इस्तीफा दे सकते हैं या उन्हें ऐसा करने की आवश्यकता नहीं है । उनका निर्णय अंतिम होगा।
    =====================================

    मांग किये गये इस `जनता की आवाज़` सरकारी हुक्म(राजपत्र अधिनियम) का सार है :-

    1. यदि नागरिक चाहे तो अपनी फरियाद 20 रूपये हर पेज देकर कलेक्टर की कचहरी जाकर पधानमंत्री के वेबसाइट पर रखवा सकेगा।
    2. यदि नागरिक चाहे तो 3 रुपये का शुल्क देकर फरियाद पर अपनी हाँ/ना पधानमंत्री वेबसाइट पर दर्ज करवा सकेगा।
    3. हाँ/ना पधानमंत्री पर अनिवार्य नहीं है।

    ये पारदर्शी शिकायत/प्रस्ताव प्रणाली(सिस्टम) ये पक्का करेगा कि नागरिकों की शिकायत/प्रस्ताव हमेशा दृश्य है और जाँची जा सकती है कभी भी ,कहीं भी, किसी के भी द्वारा ताकि शिकायत को कोई नेत्ता, कोई बाबू(लोकपाल आदि) ,कोई जज या मीडिया न दबा सके | और सबूत हो और दब ना सके, इसके लिए प्रक्रिया बहुत जरुरी है |

    इस प्रक्रिया के लागू होने से हरेक नागरिक एक रिपोर्टर बन सकता है और हरेक नागरिक एक प्रसारक | इसीलिए ये एक वैकल्पिक मीडिया होगा, जिसके द्वारा नागरिकों को मुफ्त, जाँची जा सकने वाली समाचार मिल सकता है |

    इससे लोगों के नौकरों आदि के सार्वजनिक कार्यों के बारे में भी पता चलेगा और इसकी मदद से कोई भी नागरिक निर्णय कर सकता है कि देश के लिए कौन सा व्यक्ति या कौन सी प्रक्रिया अच्छी या बुरी है |

     
  2. Diksha Right To Recall

    you support this draft or not

    The draft of proposed TCP Gazette Notification at National level

    The proposed TCP (Transparent Complain Filing) GN (Gazette Notification) has only 3 clauses. Please note that 3rd clause is a mere declaration. So as such, the proposed TCP GN has only 2 operational clauses. I request all citizens of India to ask PM to print following in Gazette next month.

    clauseno. Officer Procedure

    1 Collector(or his clerk) The President hereby orders Collector that : if a woman voter or dalit voter or senior citizen voter or poor voter or farmer voter or ANY citizen-voter in his district submits a Right to Information application or complaint against corruption or any affidavit to the Collector and requests to be put on the website of Prime Minister, the Collector or his designated clerk will issue a serial number and put that affidavit on the website of the Prime Minister for a fee of Rs 20 per page.

    2 Talati, Patwari, Village Officer(or his clerk) The President orders Patwari that:

    (2.1) if any citizen-voter comes with voter ID, and specifies Yes-No on an RTI application, complaint or any affidavit submitted in above cluase-1, the Patwari will enter his Yes-No on the PM’s website with his voter-ID and give a printed receipt for Rs 3 fee.

    (2.2) The Patwari will also allow citizen to change his Yes-No for Rs 3 fee.

    (2.3) The fee will be Re 1 for BPL card holder

    (2.4) The Collector may create system of sending SMS feedback to voters

    (2.5) The Collector may create a system of taking finger-print and picture of the voter and putting it on the receipt.

    (2.6) The PM may create a system where by citizens can register YES/NO via ATM using ATM-cards.

    (2.7) PM may add means to enable citizens to register YES/NO via SMS

    3 [To all Citizens,
    Officers, Ministers …]

    (3.1) This TCP GN is not a referendum procedure. The Yes-No count will not be a binding on PM, CMs, officers, judges etc. If over 37 crore women voters, dalit voters, senior citizen voters, poor voters, farmer voters or ANY 37 crore citizen-voters register Yes on a given affidavit, then the PM may or need not take necessary action on the affidavit ; may print it in Gazette or the PM may or need notresign. PM’s decision will be final.(3.2) Further, the Collector may design and propose a system to collect Yes-No in clause-2 over SMS, and implement after approval of PM.

     
  3. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    I agree with the transparency proposal (in principle). We can begin by doing this ourselves through cgov.in.

    s

     
  4. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Subject to proper regulation and validation of sources of funds, and addressing any other concerns (eg. re: unfair competition, appropriate transitional policies to increase competition), I believe FDI is just any other form of investment and should be allowed in all sectors. Greater competition is best for India as it will increase innovation and reduce prices for customers (and increase prices for farmers).

     
  5. Diksha Right To Recall

    kya FDI niveshko ke naam bharat ki aam janta ko maloom hone ka adhikar hona chahiye

     
  6. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    All my views are public, and I ask for government to step away from private decisions to work/produce/trade. FDI is merely one of the ways in which people may choose as citizens to trade. I’ve had some discussions on policy with some of his staff including on FDI in retail, but I’ve not directly discussed with Swami Ramdev. Note I’m not advocating FDI without checks and balances.

     
  7. Diksha Right To Recall

    maine aapka BFN abhi padha nahi hai ,,lekin aap kuch point yaha mention kar de to dekhti hun

    पहला कि किन प्रजा के नौकरों द्वारा प्रस्ताव लागू किया जायेगा, मतलब क्या कम कौन करेगा प्रस्ताव को लागू करने के लिए |

    दूसरा, आम-नागिक के लिए क्या अधिकार / प्रक्रिया है जिसके द्वारा वे ये प्रजा के नौकरों को रोक सकते हैं, प्रक्रिया का दुरुपयोग करने से |

    तीसरा, प्रक्रिया के लिए पैसा कहाँ से आएगा |

    aur kripya BFN ki link bhi de dejie

     
  8. Shailesh Gaikwad

    Respected Sir,
    Looking above i am glad you agree in “principle” with “Transparent Complaint/Affidavit/Draft Procedure” ,for commons it is a gateway to enact pro-commons procedures/proposed law.Important public view is that, it should be on law making machinery-simple reason for this is ,mass following and when masses put their opinion(approval) as well than it lives little option for bunch of people.Similarly it should be on a State/District/Panchayat level.You have given good example of FDI,FDI is a National Level decision and it requires approval of citizens. “Transparent Complaint/Affidavit/Draft Procedure” shall provide necessary tool to enact draft of FDI into law with public approval.

     
  9. Amit

    Dear Sanjeeb ji,
    >Your idea is you just need 1500 “Good” people who are “Honest” and “Competent” and those people ll be our saviors will fight for commons.What is the guaranty that these people ll remain good.Is there any role the commons (like me) hv to play in your mission .
    >You advice to support principles but not let us not go into details.Why ???
    In a democratic system leaders should be only representatives of people.So why let them decide the details for us.why cant they disclose the detailed plan.Without detailed plan principles seem unclear .
    >you said that you support the transparency proposal “in principle ” .Do you support the drafts or not ?Can you please clarify why you felt necessary to add the “(in principle)” after saying that you support TCP.

     
  10. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Dear Amit

    I believe these are good questions but I suggest my answer is not important. These issues should be answered by those who want to actively enter politics. Let them debate and decide what policies they will offer.

    Re: “in principle” as you’ll note I strongly advocate transparency. The precise ways of doing it are many so I am unable to provide detailed comment on such a detailed proposal. That requires analysis of costs/benefits and implementation issues. I don’t have time to do that.

    s

     
  11. Amit

    Dear Sanjeev ,
    I believe in democratic system every citizen has a role and we cant let some people decide our fate .

    You dont have time for pro common laws and just want some 1500 people ll rule them according to their wish certified “Good” by you and you want commons to support it .Sorry I can follow any one blindly and I ll advice the same to every other citizen

     
  12. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Amit

    Ultimately people pick their representatives based on what they offer. You are free to pick any person/ideology on offer. All I’m trying to ensure is that GOOD pepole and policies are also on offer, not just corrupt socialists.

    s

     
  13. shiva

    what amit asked are valid questions. i request sanjeev to make time and answer them. because me and amith want sanjeev to understand and propagate less ineffective procedure called transparent complaint procedure/transparent opinion gathering. where all good people /opinions are supported. http://www.righttorecall.info/001el.pdf

     
  14. shiva

    dear sanjeev
    could you please publicise TCP/TOOG as you agree with principle. also please ask q here what other part you dont like about tcp/toog? so that i can clear your doubts.
    shiva

     
  15. shiva

    you said to amith –That(analysing TCP/TOOG) requires analysis of costs/benefits and implementation issues. I don’t have time to do that.

    WE have already analysed these. all you need is review and comment on our analysis…it takes any reasonable intelligent person 2 hour. you are very experienced. it may take 1.5 hour for you. i request you to see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZKwL6wI9ucand faq videoes on tcp/toog at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhDOJmHrxlc and other 41 other FAQ.
    The second link explains cost annalysis. in short – it costs govt not even a paise. it is paid by the citizens- who want their voice to be heard. like me and you .

    implementation issue – by informing its importance to all 85 crore voter citizens. which me,amith.,diksha are trying now. we want you to join us in reaching it to 85 crore citizens-shiva

     
  16. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Shiva

    I do have a full time job and piles of readings to do in addition to piles of writings. Please continue to propagate your ideas. I’m unfortunately not able to devote the time at the moment. Maybe in the future. But spread it around. Let others read/comment.

    s

     
  17. Shailesh

    Respected Sir,
    Looking above i am glad you agree in “principle” with “Transparent Complaint/Affidavit/Draft Procedure” ,for commons it is a gateway to enact pro-commons procedures/proposed law.Important public view is that, it should be on law making machinery-simple reason for this is ,mass following and when masses put their opinion(approval) as well than it lives little option for bunch of people.Similarly it should be on a State/District/Panchayat level.You have given good example of FDI,FDI is a National Level decision and it requires approval of citizens. “Transparent Complaint/Affidavit/Draft Procedure” shall provide necessary tool to enact draft of FDI into law with public approval.

     

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