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© 2012 Sanjeev Sabhlok's revolutionary blog
I did not know anything about Baba Ramdev till I reached India in February earlier this year when I found him performing yoga on the TV. Soon after, I think in March, he announced a political movement called the Swabhiman Manch. My mother is a great fan of his! That tells me that he is striking a chord with many people in India.
I strongly support his call for self-respect and ethical governance. He is also attributed to have said the following (I'm taking these quotations from the Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/swami.ramdev?ref=ts – which is a fan page but the quotations it cites are apparently mostly borrowed from Yog Sandesh magazine: http://divyayoga.com/Yog-Sandesh-English-june.pdf ).
1) "I can emphatically say that we are living in a fool's paradise. If a cat crosses your way or anybody sneezes we presume that some unfortunate incident will happen. If one sneezes, what is wrong in it? This is natural biological phenomena, nothing is adverse in it."
2) "I'm not against technology. I want my country's capital and talent to be used with world's latest technology. I want to make globalisation and liberalization our strength, not weakness."
This sounds promising.
However, there are reported statements which cause some concern, such as:
1) "Corruption-free India is my solemn promise. Our campaign is not a result of spontaneous provocation or anger. By our valour and heroism, we would reconstruct a corruption-free, self-dependent and grand India."
Of course, I have no issues with a corruption free India. But that doesn't require valour or heroism. It requires a deep understanding of public policy. Second, I'd be VERY concerned about any attempt to create a 'self-dependent' India. Self-reliance is good, self-sufficiency (or self-dependency?) is bad. Maybe this quotation has not been properly vetted by the Facebook group?
2) "our main aim is just not to change the system but to bring an honest change within ourselves."
I don't believe changing people is either possible or necessary in order to get wonderful outcomes. Human nature has NEVER changed for a million years and won't change just because some Baba somewhere wants it to change. He doesn't control our DNA. That has evolved over hundreds of thousands of years. Indeed, even his close associates will fleece him and take him for a big ride if he is not watchful! I already know of a true story where some of his associates behaved disrespectfully with people in Haridwar. When a whole political party is involved, he had better beware his own coterie – first of all! He can NEVER change them, leave alone change Indians. He can (and I can) change India but not Indians – or for that matter any other human being. We can change India through good policy, so that Indians are able to achieve their highest potential. He must therefore demonstrate SIGNIFICANT policy expertise before he attempts to launch a political movement.
Policy compatibility
It is not obvious from my very cursory reading of Baba's views whether he understands policy at all, particularly policies of freedom. Simply attracting good people (Question: does he have a system of checking who is good? This is a real problem in India today) won't create good outcomes. It could well go in the opposite direction (as happed with Nehru, a good man who ended up ruining India). Goodness is only a minimum requirement. Policy brilliance is absolutely crucial. Without policy brilliance he and his team will fail to deliver anything good for India, and may indeed take India backward.
I'm not saying he doesn't have the policy expertise, simply that I need to verify it. The other day one of his fans contacted me asking me to view some videos here. I saw one of them and found it quite questionable. Instead of viewing videos, I'd prefer to read a systematic book written by him on policy matters, like my book Breaking Free of Nehru. If someone reading this can send me his policy thoughts, I'd appreciate that.
Organisational functioning
Second, I have many questions about the organisational structure, organisational culture, and style of Swabhiman Manch. I am a great believer in internal democracy and team work. Is his movement compatible with these basic ideas? In particular, we don't want any system that collapses when one person dies.
Organisational funding
Third, the Baba is very forthright about eliminating corruption, and bringing back money from Swiss accounts. That's excellent. I also need to know whether his organisation is as clean as it should be. In other words has his organisation EVER taken black money? Often (but not always) money given in cash is black money, i.e. undeclared income. We know that Indian temples (I'm assuming this applies to all denominations) happily take corrupt money, without vetting its source. Tirupati temple, in particular, gives special darshan to the most corrupt! The more you pay the quicker your darshan, I hear. Does that apply in the Baba's organisation even remotely? Has he consciously accepted even One Rupee of black money? I hope not, but I need to know. Whether we agree or disagree with income tax rates or income tax laws, we MUST comply with the laws and pay taxes. Not paying tax is a misdemeanour that I do not condone. I'm not saying this has even remotely happened in the case of Swabhiman Manch, but I need a clear assertion and confirmation of this fact.
These are some initial thoughts. I've offered to a friend of his that I'm happy to spare my truly precious time to personally explain to him the policy solutions that India needs – and show him around Melbourne and explain what underpins the things he sees. Nothing happens by magic. Everything requires policy expertise, particularly economic policy expertise. That offer to spend my time explaining such things to him stands.
I'm therefore interested in finding more about Baba Ramdev and, despite the scepticism about him displayed by at least a few people I know, I'm not yet ready to discard this option for reform in India without a more thorough exploration.
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Related posts:
- Baba Ramdev needs to think more deeply
- Now I’m concerned! Baba Ramdev’s ideas must change.
- Baba Ramdev’s irrational demand to prohibit cow slaughter
- Baba Ramdev a good man, but how does one get him to understand good policy?
- There is no option but to stop Baba Ramdev’s fast unto death
- The harebrained thinkers Anna’s movement is producing
- Baba Ramdev is turning out to be a godsend for the Congress
- Is Baba Ramdev wasting everyone’s time!?
- Rajesh Jain’s brilliant characterisation of India’s so-called freedom (independence) movement
- My views on Lok Satta
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HOW MUCH HAVE U BEEN PAID BY CONGRESS AND MULTI NATIONALS?
Corrupt genius a result of contaminated food which is called Asur Buddhi., that u are Mr.Sanjeev Sablok. Asuras are mortal and Suras are immortal. you know this. don't you?
RA, I’ve fought all my life against corrupt Congress. I trust you know that.
Re:Multinationals, I’ve not been paid by any, but I’ve bought lots of things (such as computers) from multinationals and have paid them, instead!
Dear RA
Please say that to the geniuses who have discovered the great truths of science. You’ll hardly find a vegetarian among the greatest geniuses of the world. At least 95% are non-vegetarian, since most of them are from the West, and mostly in the last 500 years.
Ratio-wise, vegetarians are grossly under-represented in the geniuses (that’s NOT because vegetarianism has anything to do with genius, but because most Indians – where most vegetarians of the world are located – have unfortunately not learnt to think critically, a failure I’m trying to address.) Btw, you are obviously a “Sura”. Please disclose your identity and your genius. What have you invented/ discovered/ contributed?
In general, it is best we discuss things scientifically, and not on the basis of flawed conceptions. That way, we can both learn something useful.
Regards
Sanjeev
Ha Ha!! Dear sanjeev why don't you moderate such comments?
Dr. Gogoi, only when foul language is used I do moderate – but that is very rare.
I am here to show the way for India's success. I need to persuade all RAs of India to start thinking critically. Only then can India even dream of catching up with the West and overtaking it. My goals for India are not very different from Baba Ramdev's. The only difference is that my methods (critical thinking, freedom) work, whereas Baba Ramdev's can't work.
My methods are 100% guaranteed to make India a truly great nation. Baba Ramdev's methods have 0% chance of success.
Both good men, both have same goals, but one's method (mine) will work, the other (Baba Ramdev's) won't.
So the choice is India's. Does it really want to succeed in a big way or not?
Regards
Sanjeev
Please don't be act as critics only.
If you do something better please do. Else let us (including Ramdev) to do what we want.
Before raising any question (what you had depicted) in public , particularly where we people are doing something, please verify the same with your own.
Raising question is OK for clarification but it should not be in public if you had doubt. If you are confident then only raise question in open forum, what we are doing actually.
Dear Kumar
Why – are you Ramdev’s spokesperson? Why is Ramdev afraid of questions? I’m not. I run an open blog. Anyone can ask me anything.
I expect open discussion as a BASIC requirement of a free society.
If you have particular issues, please raise them. You are not entitled to stop open discussion.
S
Sanjeev ji Namaste,
What you have written shows your concern for the country and our society.
Ramdev's intentions are very clear to all indians whether living in India or in other countries. He wants to eradicate corruptions and bring change to democratic system in such a way to make it more suitable to our cultural needs. Same laws to enforce democracy may not work in all the countries. The samvidhaan compiled by Ambedkar ji as claimed by veteran readers, is very similar to what British enforced to loot and torture the Indians then. These things need to be addressed again. The society has becoming a capitalist society and there is very little for poor. The transfer of power to Nehru hasn't helped india to curb any corruption. It has grown in leaps and bounds since then. Year on year the amount of scams is growing. Who is generating all that money, it's actually generated in farms by farmers and in factories by poor labours. The money generator is poor and not able to cope up with the increasing cost of production. There are many organizations and individuals who are working with these farmers to adopt the heritage way of farming and they are making more profits also by doing the same. But why is governement not taking the similar initiatives to make farming urea, d a p free. why are they not telling people that indian cow is not mere an animal, it is indeed out mata who can protect farmers and bring the cost of production very low. Why are we always striving for Nuclear deals. Can't we find other means to fulfill the requirement. Solar energy, gobar gas are something which are not available in most of the countries as available in India. Do we think that the technology for gobar gas will be developed in USA or Japan. We will have to develop these technologies and protect cows.
Here comes Baba ji who is giving 'ahuti' of everything to bring this change. He definitely needs persons like you who can give more technical details and make him more strong. There are many Indians who are giving whatever they have for this Yagya. I have given whatever I had. Please come and join hands so that we can bring some change together.
Sanjeev,
Just using this as a place marker to remind Vijay Mohan that we are now in April 2011 – to mark that more than 3 years have elapsed after Ramdev and his group took up the challenge to demonstrate a cure for cancer. I believe the Rationalists Society of India also offered a similar challenge, which was not picked up.
Also, a placemarker for these sites, as of today:
http://www.bharatswabhimantrust.org/bharatswa/Hindi.aspx
http://www.divyayoga.com/important-items-for-download.html
Both sites solicit donations for Ramdev and his multiple organisations, but there are no accounts placed online. Neither is there any information on any of the sites as to how one can obtain the annual accounts of the trusts.
Given that so many people on this site have said they donated to Ramdev, do you get an annual report from the trusts about the sources and uses of funds? If yes, could you post them online here?
Seriously, where is the transparency from the guy who wants to remove corruption from India?
Manish,
A small postscript – the technology to use solar energy was developed in Germany and the USA.
Cheers
Supratim
Baba Ramdev is my favorite person to vent against.
Howmuchever I dislike him, I wouldn't underestimate him. His financial muscle and his fan following is enormous.
India, at this point, is lacking a hero. Common man totally distrusts govt in general and politicians in particular. Educated class wonders why developed world has left minor issues like poverty, child labor, child education and bad infrastructure far behind while India is left so far behind.
Indians will hold on to any straw that can provide them a hope. I can promise you that Indians will elect absolutely anybody who catches their fancy and if they are convinced that he/she is honest.
Baba Ramdev fits the bill. He is charismatic, he is popular and large number of people will find him trustworthy.
I do not know what is holding him back. Probably some backroom plan is hatching. I would expect him to get into full fledged campiagn mode by the end of next year.
Seriously, I would take Congress any day over Ramdev baba. Ramdev Baba and his cronies will take India at least 100 years back.
Anybody who supports Ramdev baba here has any idea who will be the PM and Home Minister and defene minister if Ramdev baba gets to form the Govt? I am sure you don't. Most people do not know enough about his inner circle…and its a dangerous one. I assure you.
Nitin,
Personally, I still think that there is a lot of hype about Ramdev – both positive and negative – and, a lot of hype about these "civil society wallahs" who think they have done a great thing with the Jan Lokpal Bill. Just today, I got a post about how Ramdev will go on a fast from June 4th, and the "Parliament House will crumble in dust" along with "all the things we inherited from the British". Even, with all due respects to Anna Hazare, his contemptuous dismissal of the average voter was appalling.
I have seen this once before - experienced it first hand – post 26/11 in Mumbai – when "civil society members" swamped the discourse, held vigils, promised never again, said they shall be active as citizens. Net result? The state elections held in 2009 in Maharashtra – Mumbai voting % was 35%!!!! So, much for these activists.
On the other hand, I have been really, really pleased with the voting percentages so far in Tamil Nadu, Assam, Bengal – over 75% in most cases – so, the voter, so damned by Anna, are at least exercising their franchise – let us see what the verdicts are now.
If you live in urban areas, and follow the blogs and groups and comments of the "devoted and crazed" followers of Ramdev, you could be swayed and think that there is a wave coming – nothing of the sort – just visit the smaller towns, villages, mufassil areas – development is the core agenda. In some way, a winning political slogan could be "be you ever so personally corrupt, as long as you are going to develop my district, my tehsil, my town and my state, I shall vote you in!"
Interesting stuff that is happening – don't lose your rational thought process, Nitin. As I said before, India has never listened to a demagogue. The sky is NOT falling.
Cheers
Supratim
Supratim
Good to have you back after a long while.
Re: a winning political slogan could be "be you ever so personally corrupt, as long as you are going to develop my district, my tehsil, my town and my state, I shall vote you in!"
I think that is the rational strategy underpinning ANY social contract: that you give me a good outcome and I'll support you (or your government, or even the government as an entity). The politician must appeal to self-interest, not to high-flown abstractions, including the "elimination of corruption".
Baba Ramdev is definitely going to win seats. Not sure how many. But he doesn't have anything to offer people apart from a slogan about removal of corruption and banning cow slaughter.
Now these things are all well and good (to some) but they don't bring home the bacon (or vegies, in India-speak).
His economic philosophy will be his undoing. If he reverts to socialist policy by upturning the limited liberalisation we've had, the corruption in India will become increase 100 fold, equally as development and jobs come to a standstill.
Baba Ramdev is a high-risk candidate for voters and they, in their wiser moments, might think twice about what exactly he is going to get them.
The only reason India exists is because our voter is a DESPERATELY SELFISH individual. That is good. He cares for abstract things like "religion" only an extent. Above all he wants a job and wants his family to prosper. That means that anyone who can't deliver AT LEAST the level of liberalisation we see today, will be booted out.
S
Supratim's comment is the best I've heard in a while. I spent my childhood and adolescent years in a small town and it amuses me to see how out of touch with reality these activist folks are.
I am not justifying corruption. But every society has passed through a stage when it appears hopelessly corrupt. In the nineteenth century the west would have been as corrupt or worse, with little regard for the rule of law. You can't expect the people who have tasted wealth and power for the first time ever, to act gentlemanly. Yes they will flaunt their newly acquired wealth. They do not show the same regard for law, that the old middle class shows.
All these will be reined in, when there is sufficient separation of powers. Corruption won't come down because people will become angels overnight. It will come down because, with increasing competition, entrepreneurs, legislators, consumers, workers will all watch over each other's shoulders and keep each other in check.
And government should create policies that aid such an environment. Kaushik Basu, the chief economic advisor of the govt, proposed an idea that in case of harrasment bribes ( where the bribe giver is denied a service/facility that he has a legitimate right to ), bribe giver be granted immunity and bribe taker be punished and the bribe amount be returned to the giver. It is a very sensible idea, because the public official demanding bribe knows that the bribe giver has every incentive to report the act. So it will be a good deterrent. He makes clear that this should not be applied retrospectively. He also concedes that this would still not prevent the case where the same party repeatedly bribes the same official. Despite stating such a clear case, this issue has been blown out of proportion and Kaushik Basu has been villified for spoiling our nation's morality(?).
Meanwhile Chinese are creating wealth at a break neck speed. Corruption is acute there too. But rather than beating their chests about it, resourceful Chinese are busy working 80 hours a week, upsetting every other nation's trade balance and creating new towns all the way across the seas in Africa too.
Gurcharan Das used to say that India is progressing despite it's government and China is progressing due to it's government. Nothing can be farther from truth. China is prospering because like Americans, they are a people with sound common sense. Now that's a nation that I will place my money upon to become a wealthy nation by the middle of this century. Indians meanwhile will continue to light candles and have bitter partisan debates.
Actually I am not really sure if it was Gurcharan Das who said the words I mentioned in the previous comment. But he implies that in his books. While I have great respect for him and his optimism about India, I wouldn't be too optimistic about our prospects, if we continue to emphasize partisan politics over wealth creation.
Suptratim mentions the rate of vote in Tamilnadu approvingly. Well, the reason people are coming to vote is because they have been bribed with a blender or a TV or something like that.
This type of giving out of freebies causes the kind of corruption A. Raja was involved in. Where's money for the blender going to come form ? This ends up making everyone poor. It should be condemned. Alas its not going to happen.
Dear Sanjeev,
It is a bit baffling to note that you are tempted to or trying to evaluate Baba Ramdev by putting him in the shoes of Policy makers and Economists. Lets give due credit to people based on their intentions and sincerity without being hyper critical. This attitude is something that our Indian society paid for heavily and that includes people from your generation. Ramdev may be a simple man of limited intellect by your assessment of intellectual merit; nevertheless he has proved more useful than rest of us.
The fact that the entire nation now knows of a biological wonder- a human without a spine at the helm of affairs as a devil presiding over heinous crimes of unparalleled scale, can be completely credited to Baba Ramdev. The ever clueless and indifferent Indians at least now read and follow the crimes committed by congress party and its bogus leadership and realize how much of victims they were.
While I am no saint or economist, I have been following every video of Baba Ramdev..including those not telecast..thanks to our paid bogus media. Baba at one point did realize that he is not an economist or a policy maker and that he should weigh his rants on self-reliance in a manner that embraces modernization and did make attempts to get the right message across to every self-respecting Indian who always wished an end to nehru dynasty.