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My two bits for good relations between India and Australia

Australians don't hate Indians. Let's all become VERY clear about it.

For many months now, I've been posting my views on the internet to highlight and emphasise to Indians that they have SERIOUSLY misunderstood what is going on in Melbourne. See this blog post that received 32 comments.

lambasted India's great idol, Amitabh Bachchan (and one of my favourite actors!), for losing his sense and making ridiculous statements about Australians. Sorry, Amitabh, you are not God. You don't know what you don't know. 

I then implored the Indian media to show some sense and not to become as stupid as India's politicians always are. 

I opposed one of Australia's finest thinkers, Greg Sheridan (whose views I admire and often agree with) for making over-blown and disproportionate comments about Melbourne. Sorry Greg, I call a spade a spade. You were totally wrong about Melbourne.

Then, when I found that one of India's most eminent thinkers has severely misconstrued facts about what is happening in Melbourne due to the misguidance of the Indian media, I wrote out the FACTS of the case and challenged anyone to prove me wrong

CLOSURE HAS COME TO ANOTHER CASE

This blog post notes that one more case seems to be nearing to an end, without any racist motive involved. This is the case of Nitin Garg.

Of the six cases so far, this is the TRUE story:

a) Two Indians were killed by INDIANS

b) One Indian set himself on fire and SHAMELESSLY alleged racist motives.

c) One was killed by a 15 year old teenager in which the Police, after investigation, have found from their "inquiries" that "at this stage,we don’t believe it was racially motivated" Anyone would be hard pressed to prove that a 15 year old represents a RACIST AUSTRALIA!!! A misguided adolescent delinquent. Nothing to do with organised racism. There is a thing called crime and there is a thing called racism. Let's never mix the two.

d) Two cases are not yet resolved (or I haven't noticed further reports about them in the press). So no comment on those.

Conclusion

I find VERY OFFENSIVE that the highly intelligent Indian media (apart from stupid Indian Ministers who will always be stupid anyway) went out of the way to harm Australia. That was in VERY POOR FORM.

I would like to ask the idiots who govern India and its press to apologise to Australia for the harm caused to the good relations between the two countries. This is not a trifling matter. It has not only reduced the number of Indian students who come to Australia to study, it has harmed business relations between India and Australia. But the greatest damage has been done to India itself, particularly to the credibility of its press and political 'leaders'. Across the whole world, India's word would now matter less because of this strong tendency towards hysteria.

More importantly, I'd like to ask the ordinary Indians to NOT listen to their totally useless political 'leaders' and to their hysterical press on this matter but to listen to ordinary people of Indian origin living in Australia. Tens of thousands of people of Indian origin live in Australia. They are very happy and a very active part of Australian community. 

PS: Came across this article the other day. I fully support Bob Birrell's views. There is no evidence whatsoever of any increase in racism in Australia. I do not deny that racism exists, never denied it. It might even have harmed my own prospects in this country to a large extent. But I believe there is FAR GREATER racism in India (perhaps ten times more) than the racism found in Australia today. India's caste system must end. That is the greatest blot on humanity today.

Addendum: I came across this VERY OFFENSIVE comment from Gautam Gupta:

"Federation of Indian Students of Australia spokesman Gautam Gupta said it was too early to say whether the charge would improve relationships between the two countries and it was not about ''one crime, it's about the police attitudes''."

Gautam, you are simply besmirching the Victoria Police for no rhyme or reason. Your attitude is WRONG. There may well be a few problematic Police in Victoria. If so please point them out to the authorities. DO NOT besmirch an entire  organisation.

You are displaying coarse thinking (thick-headedness) and inability to analyse the situation correctly. That actually helps to bias things against Indians in general, as the more stupid among the Australians read such statements and imagine that all Indians are as thick headed as you. (Your stereotyping of the entire Police is no different from a few stupid Australians stereotyping all Indians. Remember NEVER stereotype an entire group. Deal with cases one person at a time. Be clear that there is NEVER a group attitude). 

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10 thoughts on “My two bits for good relations between India and Australia
  1. Armchair Guy

    Sanjeev:
    I think you are wrong.  I believe you didn't grasp why Indians felt that Australians are racist.  Let me try to explain what I think.
    It wasn't just that Indians were getting killed in Australia, though that was the trigger.  The Australian media took both positions in this issue.  Some said we should look into allegations of racism, others said there's no racism of any kind and there's no need to look. What incensed Indians is the tone of most Australian media reports that opposed allegations of racism.  They didn't just deny racism in Australia; they made gratuitous criticisms of India which had nothing to do with the issue at hand.  A common sentiment was along the lines "India is an unsafe third-world country; Indians are better off living in Australia than in India; more Indians die in India than the total deaths in Australia; how dare Indians accuse Australia!"  This had nothing to do with anything, but a very large number of Australian newspapers published things to that effect. 
    It was the Australian reaction to the murders of Indians, more than the murders themselves, which demonstrated the racism inherent in the Australian worldview.  I don't know whether you understand the distinction I'm trying to make.  The issue is not the validity of the claims and counterclaims.  The issue is that the Australian press made such statements at all in response to a string of murders.  In contrast, when an Australian tourist dies in India and the Aussie press gets excited, I have never seen Indian press tossing out blanket criticisms of Australia as a country as though that somehow justifies the murder.
    The Australian police also played their part.  In some of the initial cases, without any investigation whatsoever, the police said that there was no racism involved.  How did they know right after the murders, when they hadn't even begun investigations, that there was no racism?  In many cases they blamed the victim, with statements to the effect that Indians don't know what the bad parts of Aussie cities are and put themselves at risk by going there.  This instant denial and gratuitous counterattacking statements against India are what demonstrate the anti-India sentiment.  They wised up and kept their mouths shut in some of the later cases, but the damage was done.
    Additionally, these incidents led to a great deal of excitement in discussion forums everywhere. The anti-Indian sentiment was apparent in these forums.  Many Aussies condemned the incidents.  But there were many more Aussies who came to these forums to explain that Australia was fundamentally superior to India in terms of lawfulness and Indians had no business questioning Australian law enforcement.  Sure the statement is true.  Sure the forums are not representative of all Aussies.  Sure the evidence is anecdotal.  But the knee-jerk anti-India response from Aussies is evidence nevertheless.
    Finally, it's my belief that people cannot help contrasting this with what would have happened if, say, a string of British tourists had been murdered in Australia.  We can't know what would have happened, of course.  But for sure the newspapers wouldn't have been criticizing Britain.  It's because India is emotionally perceived as a powerless, disorderly and unimportant country (whatever the reality may be) that the Aussie newspapers were so willing to go on an anti-India spree.

     
  2. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Dear Armchair Guy

    I'm not here to defend anyone. I'm simply making the claim that there has been SEVERE disinformation meted out within India by the Foreign Minister of India and by the Indian press. That, plus otherwise sensible people like Amitabh Bachchan inflaming the issues through populist commentary. The hysteria in the Indian media was crazy. Relatives started calling from India whether things are OK!

    Worst was when during in my India trip in Feb-March this year I found a truly eminent person totally misled about this issue. The falsification of reality was so extreme that I seemed to be the only person (among the few people I knew) who was requesting for a more holistic and comprehensive understanding, based on facts. Facts, however, were never the issue. Emotions and wild sentiment overpowered all rational discussion. Even my blog posts attracted a fair amount of venom. One Indian located in New Zealand threatened to beat me up and I had to lodge a complaint with the local Police. 

    What you are raising is pure emotion. But I'm NOT talking about emotion at all! I'm talking about facts and the reality. I have not gone overboard like many Australians have in their blog posts, or Indians in theirs. I've stuck to the facts that:

    1) YES, there is racism in Australia AND there is even more racism in India.

    2) AND the attacks in Australia are neither particularly disproportionate to the opportunity offered by Indian students who go about alone at late night in VERY dangerous areas of Melbourne.  No sensible Melbournian would walk alone at night in many of the areas where the attacks occurred.

    3) And not just Indians but others were attacked.

    4) And not just white Australians but Lebanese and other communities were the attackers.  

    Etc. Do read my blog posts cited above. Very extensive discussion. And PURELY scientific analysis of the truth. No glossing over any aspect of reality.

    The truth is that Indians are over-sensitive to race issues because the are perhaps the world's most racist people at the moment (not earlier: then there were others as well). I've not come across more racist people than Indians. They look at the colour of the skin first, and the person second and there are 1000s of instances to prove this basic point. Sad but true. That can only stop once the caste system completely ends, but that's not only a feature of the caste system, btw. A general culture of colour consciousness. 

    As a result, they quickly believe anyone who claims that ordinary crimes have racist overtones.  That's the problem and that won't easily go away. You too are still in denial, claiming that Aussie newspapers went on an anti-Indian spree. They DID NOT!!! Indeed, quite the opposite. Many Aussie writers started groveling claiming that they are racist! This debate continues. There has been great sympathy with India's response among the lefty media. Self-flagellation is common.

    These people all fail to understand that the issue here is about organised KILLER racism. Not racism in employment or calling others foul names. That is significant but relatively trivial to the assaults that this was apparently causing. 

    To debate the race card is a losing argument. To ask for greater security (as I have always asked) is a sensible law and order argument. Indians in India need to tone down their fascination for the race argument. That's all I'm saying. If Indians are killing Indians that doesn't make the crime less of a crime. We can't forget that Indians are being killed here (as they are in India). That Indians are killing each other is equally problematic as a 'white' Australian killing an Indian.

     
  3. Vishal

    hi sanjeev
    Could you please dump this blog, we as indian student do  not want any relation with australia. Reason just pop in to the life of international student and the govermnemt is not doing anything. Renting, job and all. At end we are in limbo to receive permenant residency, they keep changing rules as they are changing diper of ther young onces. Can you please say something about constant changing rules and unhuman approach by the current government? This is real issue. OHHHHH I forget you hold australian passport, so you have to praise. Mate so many students are going back to beloved motherland and they will make sure no one is coming to this country so called first world country. Make your stats are correct mate. You may think am hater but not, am christian and as christian what I have been through  in Gujarat is something els, but after coming to this country I feel Indian is much much better place to live. If you want then praise Australia in your own house please please dont come out with this rubbish

     
  4. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Dear Vishal

    I fully sympathise with your perceptions regarding PR. I agree that the immigration department has done some thoughtless things and that it should act consistently and with a good reason.

    Regarding renting, jobs, etc. there is no role whatsoever of any government in such matters. A government can't force a private home owner to rent his/her house to someone, nor can it force a business to give someone a job. 

    I'm happy to provide you with the opportunity to write a guest post on this blog to articulate your views clearly about the problems you've faced as a student. Do write about the problems you've seen in India. I'm in Melbourne and am happy to interact more actively should you feel the need to do so. 

    Regarding 'first' world (Australia) and third world (India), that is India's problem. If you read my book (Breaking Free of Nehru), India should have been a first world country long ago.  That fact that India is run effectively by goons is India's problem, not Australia's. If you wish to join me in overthrowing the current crop of corrupt socialists who run India, please do so (http://freedomteam.in/) and I promise you that together we'll make India far better than Australia. 

    Till the day when Australians line up outside India's embassy to study in India or to migrate to India, please don't talk to me about India being a good country. It is a country that CAN be a great country but currently it is a rotten place to live in. All its people are running out of India. Why do you want PR here in the first place if India is so good? 

    So the solution is to change India, not to complain about Australia. It owes India or Indians nothing. India does, but its governments DON'T CARE. Write to me at sabhlok AT yahoo DOT com.

    Regards

    Sanjeev

     
  5. Ravi

    Regarding your reply to Vishal

    Your statements are quite general Sanjiv. My brother was in Melbourne and he left for India for good. I am also in one of the anglo saxon OECD countries with a OECD passport and am going back to India within next 2 years to live in India permanently. I think your assumption is wrong that everyrone wants to leave India. At leasts my family will have far higher standard of living in India than any of these countries like Australia.

     
  6. Ravi

    If we go by your argument than millions of Australians live outside Australia and countries like NZ has 25% of its population living outside NZ. So does it make Australia and NZ a hellhole to live in. Am sure many people, Indians included find Australia and NZ a hellhole.

     
  7. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    “I think your assumption is wrong that everyrone wants to leave India.”

    I don’t think I have such an assumption. But there are thousands (millions?) desperate to get out.

     
  8. Ravi

    @ Sanjeev

    But not as desperate as the boat people that Australians fear. I wonder if Indians were that desperate than how would Australia's Border Security cope with Millions of boat people. Food for thought. Not eveyone is as desperate as you think or make people belive to be. I have enough anacdotal evidence that many poor people would be happy to struggle and stay in India rather than go overseas.

    Millions of people dont always go overseas because they are desperate. Many go for the adventure as well.  And plus there is this propoganda advertisement from Australia, NZ and Canadian Govt through there immigration dept to lure people in for their own fiscal benefit.

     
  9. Sanjeev Sabhlok

    Dear Ravi

    Please read chapter 2 of BFN and my many writings on this subject. Migration flows from less free to more free places. I have even provided statistics.

    Statistics don’t lie. Nearly 1 crore Indians left India since the socialist government of Nehru came to power. And these were most of the BRIGHTEST and best. I know that of my classmates from school, MOST of the smartest left India. Some teach in top universities in USA, others work in top IT companies in USA, one has founded his own IT company in USA. They even REFUSE to involve themselves with India. India is an untouchable topic according to them. It is such a shock to talk to them – they have TOTALLY disconnected from India.

    This outflow has slowed down now after liberalisation, but even today there are thousands of newly arrived Indian students in Australia who are desperately unhappy that they might not get permanent residency under the new rules. They are DESPERATE to not go back.

    On the other hand, barely a handful of foreigners have migrated to India. The day when the flow reverses, I’d say that your argument makes sense.

    Using personal anecdotes to disprove facts is pointless. If anecdote is the test of any argument, then I can personally give you MANY stories of people who have FLED India and will not go back under ANY circumstance.

    And while you are citing two cases of people who returned, please examine statistically how many of those you know have returned. Even that simple sample will tell you the story.

    I trust we are not going to debate facts but find out solutions.

    Regards
    Sanjeev

     
  10. Flavian Hardcastle

    As a matter of fact, most murders in Australia that have appeared in the Indian media so far have turned out to be committed by other Indians.

    That includes Randjodh Singh, Gurshan Singh, the brothers Navdeep Singh Dhaliwal and Kawaldeep Singh Dhaliwal. That leaves only Pradeep Kumar (killer unknown), and Nitin Garg (killed by a 15yo boy).

    In fact, if you add Puneet Puneet and the many deaths of those unfortunate enough to be Dr Jayannt Patel’s patients, you could probably mount the case that Indians have killed more Australians in Australia than the other way round.

     

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